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  • #16
    Originally posted by Kap View Post
    There is nothing on fire with the world. We had plenty of cold ass weather this year for our winter. -30 and colder. Weather depends on the gulf stream, go yell at it you little whiny German kid. There is plenty of crap out there that has shown "scientists" can be influenced by money and political stance in order to make up shit and influence others. The Earth already goes through patterns of change either it be hot or cold. If you truly think humans are the sole reason for change, you are wrong and paranoid. And as far as I know, if you want to cry about it, you better get rid of the vehicle you drive, otherwise you're nothing but another hypocrite.

    Bold part : it's not a matter to think if humans are the sole reasons. They are obviously not
    The matter is to know if they are the main/principal reason of actual changes or not and if human activities effects are drowned as background noise under the consequences of natural patterns
    That's where the debate differs

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    • #17
      Thing I don't get is rocketing CO2 and languishing temp increase.
      You have Pinatubo eruption. Immediately a 1 to 2 degree cooling.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by primer View Post
        Thing I don't get is rocketing CO2 and languishing temp increase.
        You have Pinatubo eruption. Immediately a 1 to 2 degree cooling.
        CO2 is a warehouse effect gas. Like a few others it blocks the reflection of IR from the ground to the space and keep a percentage of normaly reflected IR rays into the atmosphere.
        Pinatubo emitted CO2 / SH2 ect but also a lot and lot of ashes particles. The cooling was due to the massive particle emission that blocked the sun rays (and thus IR energy) to reach the lower atmosphere

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Kap View Post
          There is nothing on fire with the world. We had plenty of cold ass weather this year for our winter. -30 and colder. Weather depends on the gulf stream, go yell at it you little whiny German kid. There is plenty of crap out there that has shown "scientists" can be influenced by money and political stance in order to make up shit and influence others. The Earth already goes through patterns of change either it be hot or cold. If you truly think humans are the sole reason for change, you are wrong and paranoid. And as far as I know, if you want to cry about it, you better get rid of the vehicle you drive, otherwise you're nothing but another hypocrite.
          Are you blinkered or what? We had nothing like I know from my youth. Today we'll get around 30°C in some areas. In the middle of April! The Gulf Stream is of course relevant but it's by far not the only important "driver" and I'm presumably about your age you child. Sure, but please ask yourself who is able and willing to spend more money to influence the outcome? Besides that I doubt that political stance actually gets in the way of real scientists. They're interested in the research and outcome and not which party or what ever it may suit. Of course there always were warmer and colder periods. The thing is that what currently is going on doesn't actually fits into the pattern we could observe over the last 400k years. I never said that humans are the sole reason as Mordoror already pointed out. Cars or for the matter anything driven by fossil fuels surely aren't good but my car is by far below the emission limits and even if I'd remove the main catalyser it would presumably still pass the test. I can't deny that I'm part of the problem here but the impact of a single car to global warming is neglectable.

          Your post in general shows me that you're quite simple minded. You know about some of the relevant things casually but have no real clue what you're actually talking about and how to put things in relation. Sometimes I wish I could be that simple minded, too. Makes life much easier obviously.

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          • #20
            We've coined a new word..."Sprinter". Spring/Winter. And we're on the Mason-Dixon Line.



            It’s the coldest and snowiest April on record near the Great Lakes, and residents are ‘fuming

            The Upper Midwest and Great Lakes have never seen an April like this. Extreme winter conditions have refused to relent even into the month’s second half, testing the patience of local residents.
            Scores of records for both snow and cold have fallen. Minneapolis; Madison, Wis.; and Marquette, Mich., are among the many towns and cities experiencing their coldest-ever April. And Minneapolis; Sioux Falls, S.D.; and Green Bay, Wis., were recently dealt record snowfalls for the month.
            And, with the wintry pattern lingering for a few more days, more records for extreme winter weather are likely to fall.
            Winter weather advisories and winter storm warnings stretch from southwest South Dakota to southeast Wisconsin Wednesday as the latest storm dumps several additional inches of the snow on the winter-fatigued region.

            https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.0e74108e9f12

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            • #21
              We have sprummer here in Southern-Bavaria today 25 ° C and rising to 27 ° C on the weekend.

              I like !!


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              • #22
                Volcanic heat found under Antarctica’s fastest-melting glacier

                A group of scientists at the University of Rhode Island stumbled on something unexpected when analyzing data brought back from a 2014 expedition to western Antarctica.
                Scientists found an abundance of the noble gas Helium-3, indicating there is a volcanic heat source beneath the Pine Island glacier — the fastest-melting glacier in the South Pole. The findings were published in a study in the journal Nature Communications.
                “When you find helium-3, it’s like a fingerprint for volcanism. We found that it is relatively abundant in the seawater at the Pine Island shelf,” chemical oceanographer Brice Loose, the study’s lead author, said in a statement.
                “The volcanic heat sources were found beneath the fastest moving and the fastest melting glacier in Antarctica, the Pine Island Glacier,” Loose said. “It is losing mass the fastest.”
                Previous research has identified a network of volcanic rifts beneath Western Antarctica that could be contributing to the ice sheet’s instability. A 2014 University of Texas study concluded that “large areas at the base of Thwaites Glacier are actively melting in response to geothermal flux consistent with rift-associated magma migration and volcanism.”

                http://www.cfact.org/2018/06/27/volc...lting-glacier/

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                • #23
                  Seems like a good thread to remind people that the Romans grew grapes in the UK to make wine. You know, because climate change.

                  World's been around a long time. Change happens. And it happened before the industrial revolution.

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                  • #24
                    You too, eh?

                    Take a look at the first graph and tell me what you see, please.

                    https://www.klimafakten.de/behauptun...s-klimawandels

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                    • #25
                      They did write much about the seas turning apocalyptically acid yet the graphs show CO2 levels replicated before and its all survived...more or less.

                      Is that prediction still in place?

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                      • #26
                        When will people figure out, I wonder, we can all agree on the fact that climate change is happening, the more so in a manner aggreviated by mankind, but have totally different opinions on what needs to be done about it? Way more people wouldn't be so obstinate about it if the left finally learnt they do not own a monopoly on 'good'. If you feel like people need to change their behavior, don't scold them and don't push them around with legal fiat. Try to convince them, and they'll listen. That's what democracy is about.

                        Unfortunately, the left has no interest in doing that no matter which aspect of their agenda. It's way more convenient for them to create opposition as they go along until everything is completely blown out of proportion. They antagonize entire demographics only to have someone to blame.

                        In truth, it's reasonably defensible to believe that nothing needs to be done about it – as climate change would've happened anyway, only at less quick a pace. Likewise it's defensible to demand that trillions be spent on counter-measures. But if you wanna spend a people's wealth in a manner you seem fit, you had best get your shit together and convinced them to join your cause. You don't get to ignore democratic norms and you don't get to run a great risk just because you believe in your moral and intellectual superiority. Everyone's got one vote, whether they're an untrained construction worker or have a degree in vegan studies.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by muck View Post
                          When will people figure out, I wonder, we can all agree on the fact that climate change is happening, the more so in a manner aggreviated by mankind, but have totally different opinions on what needs to be done about it? Way more people wouldn't be so obstinate about it if the left finally learnt they do not own a monopoly on 'good'. If you feel like people need to change their behavior, don't scold them and don't push them around with legal fiat. Try to convince them, and they'll listen. That's what democracy is about.

                          Unfortunately, the left has no interest in doing that no matter which aspect of their agenda. It's way more convenient for them to create opposition as they go along until everything is completely blown out of proportion. They antagonize entire demographics only to have someone to blame.

                          In truth, it's reasonably defensible to believe that nothing needs to be done about it – as climate change would've happened anyway, only at less quick a pace. Likewise it's defensible to demand that trillions be spent on counter-measures. But if you wanna spend a people's wealth in a manner you seem fit, you had best get your shit together and convinced them to join your cause. You don't get to ignore democratic norms and you don't get to run a great risk just because you believe in your moral and intellectual superiority. Everyone's got one vote, whether they're an untrained construction worker or have a degree in vegan studies.

                          I would prefer 5 billion people die off and we get sent back to the stone age. That'll help with the so called climate change.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            I was serious. Imho it's a fair question: We're in the process of leaving an ice age behind, with all the consequences attached to it. At the utmost human influence speeds things up, but the Maledives were going to sink anyway, only further on in history. Polar bears were going to go extinct anyway. Future generations would've had to face those issues anyway.

                            Trillions have been spent on trying to slow down or prevent that which is going to happen anyway. I wonder, do we invest anything at all in, say, land reclamation to preserve islands under threat of flooding? Or, what if all those trillions had been rerouted to bring fusion energy to maturity phase?

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by muck View Post
                              I was serious. Imho it's a fair question: We're in the process of leaving an ice age behind, with all the consequences attached to it. At the utmost human influence speeds things up, but the Maledives were going to sink anyway, only further on in history. Polar bears were going to go extinct anyway. Future generations would've had to face those issues anyway.

                              Trillions have been spent on trying to slow down or prevent that which is going to happen anyway. I wonder, do we invest anything at all in, say, land reclamation to preserve islands under threat of flooding? Or, what if all those trillions had been rerouted to bring fusion energy to maturity phase?
                              I think too that a climate change would be happening even if there were no humans right now. But nevertheless i think we should support more environment friendly technologies, simply because i kinda like clean air and clean water.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by muck View Post
                                I was serious. Imho it's a fair question: We're in the process of leaving an ice age behind, with all the consequences attached to it. At the utmost human influence speeds things up, but the Maledives were going to sink anyway, only further on in history. Polar bears were going to go extinct anyway. Future generations would've had to face those issues anyway.

                                Trillions have been spent on trying to slow down or prevent that which is going to happen anyway. I wonder, do we invest anything at all in, say, land reclamation to preserve islands under threat of flooding? Or, what if all those trillions had been rerouted to bring fusion energy to maturity phase?
                                Yes ecological environment (thus species) would change naturally in the future as it did in the past
                                Just that human influence is speeding things up
                                And with the pace that leaves no room or little room for others species to adapt

                                Adaptations take time to happen
                                Yes the polar bear would have gone eventually naturally extinct, like the wooly mammooth. Yet it was not sure. Wooly mammooyh survived on the Wrangel islands 2000 year ago
                                What is sure is that human influence on the environment is threatening 50-75% of the world species over the next few decades, have led to extinctions of several tenth of them over the past 2500 years and has an impact as devastating than a major geophysical crisis

                                We, as human, are threatening as much if not more species over the timespan of our existence as modern humans (around 10 000 years) than 4/5 of the past extinctions that happened over the course of 100 000 years at least (i put aside the KT impact that was obvisouly sudden)
                                And this has speeded up in the past 50 years and speeded up again in the past 10-15 years

                                https://www.biologicaldiversity.org/...nction_crisis/

                                Also remember that, no matter we live in artificial environment, our societies are still depending of their ecological environment
                                Loss of domestic bees, fish reserves, soil microorganisms, water and air pollution will impact our food safety and health
                                Which in turn will impact social stability by mass migrations, war for land and ressources, be it economical or plain military
                                As well as extension of spreadable diseases

                                When you know that most of us are living in cities, depending of an external food circuit to get fed, imagine the impact of food becoming more expensive and scarcer
                                If you want to mitigate the trainwreck in becoming, the trillions put in environmental protection are needed imo
                                Now if you want our civilization go up in a blaze of glory, spare the money, buy pop corn and watch the firework. Sometimes, i tell myself that getting rid of most of humans would be the best thing that can happen to the planet

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