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France : Roads are blocked in protest against Macron's fiscal and ecological policy

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  • Fanning the flames? Throwing oil on the fire?

    A la veille de la manifestation des gilets jaunes, Emmanuel Macron a regretté ce vendredi 11 janvier la perte du "sens de l'effort" en France, qui expliquerait "parfois" les "troubles" que connaît le pays. Drôle de timing pour un tel discours.



    Ses sorties fracassantes sont de retour. Ce vendredi 11 janvier, Emmanuel Macron, fidèle à son franc-parler qui lui a parfois causé du tort, a estimé que "beaucoup trop" de Français n'ont... pas "le sens de l'effort". Voilà qui expliquerait "parfois" les "troubles" que connaît le pays, comprendre la crise des gilets jaunes, selon le président. Le chef de l'Etat ne risque pas de se faire de nouveaux amis parmi ces gilets jaunes, qui manifestent, ce samedi, notamment à Bourges, théâtre de leur "acte neuf".
    https://www.marianne.net/politique/s...box=1547232213


    Act 9 is going to be interesting...

    Comment


    • There is thing that may be important to observe.

      It is how the international press, though recognizing both sides are violent, is especially condemning the violence from the governmental side. Pointing out the fact that a full blown social crisis is not successfully dealt with by heavy handed repression.
      Dialog is paramount, but cannot be achieved if the government positions itself like the French one does.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Mordoror View Post
        A money pot was made for the 1015 cops, gendarmes and firemen wounded since the beginning of the YJ movement, reaching above 1 million of euros from 37K persons

        https://www.lemonde.fr/societe/artic...7344_3224.html

        But i will again read that YJs supported by the majority of french people. Oh wait, not so much anymore (-10 points)

        https://www.francetvinfo.fr/economie...e_3137177.html

        Support has decreased from 40 to 31%
        Sympathy is pretty stable around 29%
        Hostility is up by 9 points at 31%
        My source says that in 2018:
        14 gendarmes died (including Colonel Beltrame)
        33 committed suicide
        7453 were injured
        he claims 4.5% of the gendarmes were injured during the YJs' protests. It must be a BS, as you posted the number that would make a much bigger percentage, but it includes firefighters as well.
        23% of hostile acts against gendarmes happened in overseas departments and it's out of any proportion.
        https://lessor.org/a-la-une/voeux-ca...ie-bilan-2018/

        Comment


        • Jean Michel Apathie, a French political commentator, raised an interesting point about the money pot for the LEOs.

          First there was the one for the boxer, mostly raised to cover his attorney fees and help his family as a form of solidarity. It was promptly shut down. Apathie considered that as a mistake for it is basically sanctioning the principle of solidarity. Apathie also reminded that before surrendering to the police, Dettinger made a video in which he apologized and told others not to do the same.

          After that money pot got shut down, another one was created in solidarity with the wounded LEOs. Apathie pointed out it was created by a political figure, and only shortly after the one for Dettinger was created. He saw it as a sign of vengeance, not as a sign solidarity. For it was the very first time such a money pot was created.
          Sure it raised over a million euros, and maybe more at that time, and it is a good thing in itself. Wounded LEOs receive very little support.

          Comment


          • I also love that the anti yellow vest fellas like to remind us that supposedly oh only 55% of the French still support them whereas Macron’s approval rating is still bellow 25%.

            ETA: it seems that today was still an important protest all around France but without much dramas unlike last Saturday.
            Last edited by Jake; 12-01-2019, 02:46 PM.

            Comment


            • One thing I noted on the various pictures and footage is the increasing presence, among crowd control LEOs, of rifles.

              Though it has been a subject debated at length with people working either in the police nationale or gendarmerie, I can't remember any demonstrations, in France, or even riots, the kind that usually happens after a suburb-youth gets killed by the police for x or y reason, in which G36 and FAMAS were being carried by members of the crowd control.

              Since the very beginning the government is scared shitless or is trying to blow things out of proportions, or maybe both: projects of "armed" insurgency (with sticks, stones and fireworks...?), kidnapping officials, targeted murders of officials and LEOs, etc...

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Ivan le Fou View Post
                There is thing that may be important to observe.

                It is how the international press, though recognizing both sides are violent, is especially condemning the violence from the governmental side. Pointing out the fact that a full blown social crisis is not successfully dealt with by heavy handed repression.
                Dialog is paramount, but cannot be achieved if the government positions itself like the French one does.
                I think that's a fair point Ivan . Maybe macron could have addressed the protesters directly and at a far earlier stage instead of via TV in the Elysee ( don't quote me , I think that's what it's called ) with gold guilded wallpaper on display in the background . It merely perpetuates the out of touch feeling that he is hiding behind his office instead of leading .

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Jake View Post
                  I also love that the anti yellow vest fellas like to remind us that supposedly oh only 55% of the French still support them whereas Macron’s approval rating is still bellow 25%.

                  ETA: it seems that today was still an important protest all around France but without much dramas unlike last Saturday.
                  The difference is that one is elected, the other is not.
                  This mantra about legitimity of any gov because the polls are going down (which is something that has always happened) is just a copy pasta of anti democratic group and parties

                  It appeared since 2-3 presidential elections while historicaly all presidents went below 25% after the first year

                  Using that argument is not receivable. Period. Moreover because it comes initially from far right and far left groups with a specific idea behind.

                  Unhappy with the gov, punish it through elections...

                  Comment


                  • Yeah but that make it even worse Mordoror, he was legitimately elected and no one will argue this and his polls among the population have plummeted. Even Francois Hollande wasn’t that low within the first year of his presidency and didn’t put the people on the streets: that’s when you realize there’s a bit of an issue.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Jake View Post
                      Yeah but that make it even worse Mordoror, he was legitimately elected and no one will argue this and his polls among the population have plummeted. Even Francois Hollande wasn’t that low within the first year of his presidency and didn’t put the people on the streets: that’s when you realize there’s a bit of an issue.
                      In fact Holland was (and demonstrations against El Kohmri laws were as violent if not more)
                      Sarkozy too.
                      In fact calls about lack of legitimity appeared with him from the far left
                      Then the far right did the same during Holland.
                      Look i see where you want to go and i dont put you in the same bags that some other people that have that argument or speech. But be aware that it is everything except innocent when coming from some sides and creeping through the social networks.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Jake View Post
                        I also love that the anti yellow vest fellas like to remind us that supposedly oh only 55% of the French still support them whereas Macron’s approval rating is still bellow 25%.

                        ETA: it seems that today was still an important protest all around France but without much dramas unlike last Saturday.

                        There is a difference between sides: 50000 protesters facing a legitimate elected government don´t represent equal sides.

                        But in reality, there are´nt just 2 sides Jake. Even in the YV there are multiple views: we had a view that money earned was taken away in too many taxes, a view that does´nt go against taxing but requests that others be taxed, a more general view that only the same people get heard, and the view (that seems dominant today since 10 billion EUR have been reinjected to the middle class) that the government is illegitimate, that laws and elected officials should be removed through referendums. We even had some youth from the suburbs joining the movement and loot their surroundings. Not to mention a few "quenelles" and conspiracy theories. There are a lot of shades in that yellow.

                        It´s possible also to support the LEO´s who are trying to keep order as protesting is permitted but rioting is´nt (and we French have long forgotten about the difference through overexposure to black blocks and antifa) without being a fan of Macron.

                        I don´t have much against Macron if it was´nt for his clumsiness and his ill-controlled communication that may often be right but falls at the wrong time to the wrong people.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Telmar View Post


                          There is a difference between sides: 50000 protesters facing a legitimate elected government don´t represent equal sides.

                          But in reality, there are´nt just 2 sides Jake. Even in the YV there are multiple views: we had a view that money earned was taken away in too many taxes, a view that does´nt go against taxing but requests that others be taxed, a more general view that only the same people get heard, and the view (that seems dominant today since 10 billion EUR have been reinjected to the middle class) that the government is illegitimate, that laws and elected officials should be removed through referendums. We even had some youth from the suburbs joining the movement and loot their surroundings. Not to mention a few "quenelles" and conspiracy theories. There are a lot of shades in that yellow.

                          It´s possible also to support the LEO´s who are trying to keep order as protesting is permitted but rioting is´nt (and we French have long forgotten about the difference through overexposure to black blocks and antifa) without being a fan of Macron.

                          I don´t have much against Macron if it was´nt for his clumsiness and his ill-controlled communication that may often be right but falls at the wrong time to the wrong people.
                          Yes
                          But we are now in a situation that "you are with me or against me". Middle path is not heard.
                          You are sympathetic with the LEO : you are a pro Macronist
                          You are sympathetic with the ideas of the YJ, you are a rioter
                          Fuck that

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Ivan le Fou View Post
                            One thing I noted on the various pictures and footage is the increasing presence, among crowd control LEOs, of rifles.

                            Though it has been a subject debated at length with people working either in the police nationale or gendarmerie, I can't remember any demonstrations, in France, or even riots, the kind that usually happens after a suburb-youth gets killed by the police for x or y reason, in which G36 and FAMAS were being carried by members of the crowd control.

                            Since the very beginning the government is scared shitless or is trying to blow things out of proportions, or maybe both: projects of "armed" insurgency (with sticks, stones and fireworks...?), kidnapping officials, targeted murders of officials and LEOs, etc...
                            False
                            Notre Dame des Landes : https://www.liberation.fr/checknews/...-famas_1653515
                            Gendarmes going for CC (2008) : https://aline1308.skyrock.com/197120...me-mobile.html

                            The AR is widely present during CC in the gendarmerie for dual use : possibility to be used as a GL for CS and other grenades
                            Assault rifle if needed
                            In the police (CRS) the CC teams are covered since 2014 by colleagues with AR or sniper rifles, a SOP initiated because of terrorist risk in the crowd and the 2005 experience when CRS were shot at with hunting rifles

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Mordoror View Post

                              Yes
                              But we are now in a situation that "you are with me or against me". Middle path is not heard.
                              You are sympathetic with the LEO : you are a pro Macronist
                              You are sympathetic with the ideas of the YJ, you are a rioter
                              Fuck that
                              This part I agree with.

                              I’m definitely sympathetic to the Yellow vest, non violent protesters on roundabout and even those who protest peacefully in large cities. In fact and despite some incidents yesterday, the protests that gathered 80,000 YV was by and large without major troubles. It’s good to be noted that some YV have decided to be in front of the demonstration to prevent attacks against cops or shops and things.

                              But it’s true that yesterday there was also a major gas leak blast in Paris that killed 4, including 2 young firefighters and that eclipsed the YV new protests.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Mordoror View Post

                                False
                                Notre Dame des Landes : https://www.liberation.fr/checknews/...-famas_1653515
                                Gendarmes going for CC (2008) : https://aline1308.skyrock.com/197120...me-mobile.html

                                The AR is widely present during CC in the gendarmerie for dual use : possibility to be used as a GL for CS and other grenades
                                Assault rifle if needed
                                In the police (CRS) the CC teams are covered since 2014 by colleagues with AR or sniper rifles, a SOP initiated because of terrorist risk in the crowd and the 2005 experience when CRS were shot at with hunting rifles
                                True for NDDL, but that wasn't really a "demonstration" or a "riot". Though it turned into riots in the end.

                                And as I said "I can't remember". Meaning I cannot remember. Not meaning: it never happened.


                                As for French AR used for CC: only rubber bullets. CS is only launched by hand or via a Cougar launcher.
                                Rubber bullets are meant to be directly shot at people; causing abrasions, contusions, bruises, broken bones, damages to inner organs and even death.
                                Exactly the kind of thing that is needed to deescalate the situation.

                                Comment

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