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Macron: G7 Doesn't mind being G6 and Doesn't Need the US

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  • Originally posted by Jonathan View Post
    That makes no sense.

    As mentioned, international institutions have lost all credibility at this point. Symbolism is not needed.

    You are selling yourself short though. Europe’s assistance wasn’t symbolic during OIF. It was real. Yet, could we have gone in alone without our friends and achieved the same result? Of course. You and I both know this. We may have not had the same level of domestic public support for the war as we did when Bush announced a “coalition,” but in retrospect, perhaps that’s not such a bad thing in the future, eh?

    In other words, unlike Europe, when it comes to national defense we are perfectly capable of not having to rely on others. I’m sure you wouldn’t disagree with that.

    No idea what the hell you’re talking about. We don’t rely on being “friends” with a country to provide security for our diplomats. Hell, we still have diplomatic relationships with Russia.

    As for maintaining bases, don’t be silly. Europe isn’t letting us have bases on their soil out of the pure goodness of their heart and because they’re our friends. It’s perceived as a mutual benefit. Ask Poland.


    3 year old logic is thinking that “being liked” is the most important thing. It isn’t.

    ————————————-

    Whatever happened to “countries don’t have friends, they have interests?”
    Of course it doesnt make sense for because you understand only crudr balance of power. Issue is that balance of power is not limited to number of tanks,planes and carriers. It s not for nothing that you wanted to drag EU countries with abroad dominions in ypur pacific pivot. It s not for nothing indeed for internal and external makeup that you draged EU countries in OIF. You need others cooperation on terrorism, border security, intelligence, safety of economical routes, drug smuggling etc.

    Your 1.5 m men are neither enough neither formed neither ubiquitary for all those issues

    Concerning your bases let me remind you the fuss your country made when we expelled your bases. But dont let your self importance hit the reality.

    Of course countries are allies when they have common interest and there is no friendship between countries. But if we dont have common interest anymore are we still allies?

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    • Originally posted by Mordoror View Post
      You need others cooperation on terrorism, border security, intelligence, safety of economical routes, drug smuggling etc.
      And we will continue to cooperate on matters of mutual benefi, whether our leaders “like” each other or not.

      We don’t need to be “liked” to cooperate with countries on terrorism, drug smuggling, or intelligence. They’re matters of mutual benefit. I’m sure you’re aware we cooperate with a number of countries on these issues none of whom anyone would consider our “allies.”

      Originally posted by Mordoror
      Of course countries are allies when they have common interest and there is no friendship between countries. But if we dont have common interest anymore are we still allies?
      We still cooperate with Russia on matters of mutual benefit (e.g. purchasing their rocket engines). Does that make them our “ally?” Of course not.

      Unless you’re talking about mutual security assurance treaties (which I have always been against and believe are completely not beneficial for the US), the term “allies” is meaningless.

      We had disagreements and mutual interests with the EU during Obama and Bush. Just like we have disagreements and mutual interests with you now under Trump. The only thing that’s changed is Trump is less diplomatic and politically correct in how he talks. Judging by this thread’s op, he ain’t the only one.

      Originally posted by Mordoror
      But dont let your self importance hit the reality.
      I’m not the one insisting that it’s so very important for us that the EU “likes” us.

      Really, this is what this boils down to. You guys are upset that Trump is trying to negotiate a better deal for the US because that’s not how “friends” behave, while at the same time acknowledging there is no such thing in foreign relations. You can’t have it both ways.

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      • Daimler's and BMW pulled over for emission defeating programs. The time for that revelation to surface is extraordinary. Diesels are a hard engine to clean up though. It should be taken into account.
        But possibly next step the EU would ban them? The lobby is already in on that saying all diesels fail current standard for emission. EU has created its own personal guarantee for failure once again.
        Its like its suicidal organisation ...run by bureaucrats of course.



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        • Can anybody link me to the quote or actions of Trudeau at the G7 that triggered Trump?

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          • Larry Kudlow who backed up Trump's rejection of the G7 closing declaration and hostility towards Canada was hospitalized after suffering a heart attack. So Turdeau isn't all talk? I mean those commies sure do love their poison

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            • In a nutshell US will implement those tariffs unless the do a deal.. Canada's 270% tariff on dairy automatically means no US farmer gets hurt because they don't sell into that market. So much for the big free trader and then have a close look at his steel and aluminum ..Trudeau almost complete hypocrite apparently. But wait then he rolls out a guilt trip and pretty much forgets his first language wouldn't be french or english without US.

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              • He's just upset...

                Last edited by Moose_Hates_You; 16-06-2018, 12:23 AM.

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                • Originally posted by Jonathan View Post
                  And we will continue to cooperate on matters of mutual benefi, whether our leaders “like” each other or not.

                  We don’t need to be “liked” to cooperate with countries on terrorism, drug smuggling, or intelligence. They’re matters of mutual benefit. I’m sure you’re aware we cooperate with a number of countries on these issues none of whom anyone would consider our “allies.”

                  We still cooperate with Russia on matters of mutual benefit (e.g. purchasing their rocket engines). Does that make them our “ally?” Of course not.

                  Unless you’re talking about mutual security assurance treaties (which I have always been against and believe are completely not beneficial for the US), the term “allies” is meaningless.

                  We had disagreements and mutual interests with the EU during Obama and Bush. Just like we have disagreements and mutual interests with you now under Trump. The only thing that’s changed is Trump is less diplomatic and politically correct in how he talks. Judging by this thread’s op, he ain’t the only one.


                  I’m not the one insisting that it’s so very important for us that the EU “likes” us.

                  Really, this is what this boils down to. You guys are upset that Trump is trying to negotiate a better deal for the US because that’s not how “friends” behave, while at the same time acknowledging there is no such thing in foreign relations. You can’t have it both ways.
                  Again it's not a matter of likes. I really don't see from where you came from about this.
                  It's a matter of trust, confidence and balance (as far as possible) in bilateral relationships to keep this trust and keep discussions channels open
                  We are not upset because Trump is trying to negociate a better deal
                  We are upset because what he is doing is not negociation at all but tantrums, threats and economical attacks against us

                  When you negociate you give bargain chips, you receive bargain chips. That's the definition of negociations
                  What Trump has done, even before entering any negociation room, (if he will ever) is to shit on the table, show a middle finger to opposite negociation teams and leave the room with a winner smile, thinking he has won. For just after, whining because some are still unfair and are not treating him well
                  It's clearly not negociation for a better deal. It's pure trolling

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                  • For more clarity regarding dairy trade into Canada
                    http://business.financialpost.com/ne...st-trade-deals
                    Trans Pacific Partnership pact which Canada stalled in negotiations, derailed it for a better deal allowing a 3.5% access gross total for imports of dairy product into the Canadian dairy market,.
                    And even at that level Canadian dairies milking only 40 cows are worried..
                    3.5%... I always wondered what deal our poncy trade dealer extraordinaire Tim Grosser got.

                    Meanwhile, exports from the U.S. to Canada have surged to 178,000 tonnes in 2016 from 24,000 tonnes in 1993, he said.
                    For those that think Trump is incorrect.

                    On the other hand good on them both supporting farmers. Its a funny market though. The primary industry
                    Last edited by primer; 13-06-2018, 03:28 PM.

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                    • Originally posted by Jonathan View Post

                      As for maintaining bases, don’t be silly. Europe isn’t letting us have bases on their soil out of the pure goodness of their heart and because they’re our friends. It’s perceived as a mutual benefit. Ask Poland.
                      Not every country is Poland and not every European country has problems with Russia. Actually, people in a lot of European countries would be happy about American troops being booted out of Europe. It would not be me, but many forum members certainly would be.
                      Regarding Poland, we started extensively trading with Iran after Barry Hussein signed the deal. In 2017, Polish exports to Iran rose by 500%. The EU does not want to impose any sanctions on Iran as the latter is not any threat to peace in the world. It's just a regional troublemaker. The ol' Drumpf has broken the deal and it may affect the Polish economy. We signed a lot of oil contracts with Iran and now Drumpf wants to fuck it up.

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                      • Originally posted by Musashi View Post
                        Not every country is Poland and not every European country has problems with Russia. Actually, people in a lot of European countries would be happy about American troops being booted out of Europe. It would not be me, but many forum members certainly would be.
                        Regarding Poland, we started extensively trading with Iran after Barry Hussein signed the deal. In 2017, Polish exports to Iran rose by 500%. The EU does not want to impose any sanctions on Iran as the latter is not any threat to peace in the world. It's just a regional troublemaker. The ol' Drumpf has broken the deal and it may affect the Polish economy. We signed a lot of oil contracts with Iran and now Drumpf wants to fuck it up.
                        this is happening in Canada now Canadians boycotting US goods and holidays .... the same will happen in the beginning of July when the EU hits the US with tariffs in response to steel and aluminium and Americans will start boycotting non US products and holidays in response ... it just ramps up more animosity ... is this what Trump really wants because this is what he will get

                        https://nypost.com/2018/06/14/canadi...ns-to-america/

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                        • Originally posted by Tizer View Post
                          this is happening in Canada now Canadians boycotting US goods and holidays .... the same will happen in the beginning of July when the EU hits the US with tariffs in response to steel and aluminium and Americans will start boycotting non US products and holidays in response ... it just ramps up more animosity ... is this what Trump really wants because this is what he will get

                          https://nypost.com/2018/06/14/canadi...ns-to-america/
                          To the boycotters: Screw them. Coming over here with their overly polite manners and fancy French language. smh

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                          • Hey, at least they didn't rename a fricking snack in a huff. Or poured perfectly good wine down the sewers.

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                            • Originally posted by muck View Post
                              Hey, at least they didn't rename a fricking snack in a huff. Or poured perfectly good wine down the sewers.
                              That’s because America cannot into wine and food.

                              No need to beat a dead horse.

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                              • Back in the days of the Iraq War, a friend of mine did a year as an exchange student in Arkansas. The stuff they told her… "We should've killed you all in 1945" being among the nicest.

                                I think it's pretty preposterous and certainly not "patriotism" but mindless nationalism to equate another people with a government you happen to dislike. Folks who engage in such boycotts and whatnot are fucking idiots.

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