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  • #46
    Originally posted by budgie View Post

    And not a single 'fact' from the Trump supporters. Just the rumor that it's a partisan witch hunt. ...
    There is this thing in Western justice systems called the burden of proof. Supporters of the President don't have to prove he's innocent. His detractors and investigators have to prove he's guilty. And thus far all we have seen is rumours - running on rumours is a pretty piss-poor way of going about things. Even with charges as nebulous as "conspiracy" and "lying to the FBI".

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    • #47
      I pardon myself every time I break down and give myself an ice cream sandwich.

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      • #48
        Originally posted by TheKiwi View Post

        There is this thing in Western justice systems called the burden of proof. Supporters of the President don't have to prove he's innocent. His detractors and investigators have to prove he's guilty. And thus far all we have seen is rumours - running on rumours is a pretty piss-poor way of going about things. Even with charges as nebulous as "conspiracy" and "lying to the FBI".

        This is true and that's what the investigation is about and why it must keep on cracking. In my case Mr Mueller didn't show me the dossier last time we sat down for lunch. And yes it is technically wrong of me to assume just because the mounting evidence looks bad that Trump is therefore guilty. But it is good evidence.

        And this top-to-bottom denial in the face of a snowballing mountain of evidence is equally disingenuous. Especially for those who still think Obama is a Kenyan, or subscribe to the Benghazi blame game or any other unproven GOP-manufactured scandal.

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        • #49
          Originally posted by budgie View Post


          This is true and that's what the investigation is about and why it must keep on cracking. In my case Mr Mueller didn't show me the dossier last time we sat down for lunch. And yes it is technically wrong of me to assume just because the mounting evidence looks bad that Trump is therefore guilty. But it is good evidence.

          And this top-to-bottom denial in the face of a snowballing mountain of evidence is equally disingenuous. Especially for those who still think Obama is a Kenyan, or subscribe to the Benghazi blame game or any other unproven GOP-manufactured scandal.
          TheKiwi told you in his post that the burden of proof (evidence) is on the investigators and people like YOU who proclaim/assert his guilt. Then he goes further to tell you the current state of the investigation is that of unfounded rumors, and that declairing any guilt based on rumors is a "piss-poor"/impropper way of doing it.
          That's the message I recieved from his post, and you replied to it.

          Your opening response is you say it's "true"....you AGREE.
          TheKiwi told you to date there is ONLY RUMORS, and YOU AGREED.

          Right away tho you go into your snarkiness about how Mueller didn't show you the dossier when you had lunch with him. I get maybe you think it's cute, but honestly it makes you look like a douche when you bring no substance and only seem to post to be argumentative for the sake of being argumentative regardless if you can back your argument up.
          You then claim mounting evidence "the evidence is good". WHAT evidence budgie? Please take this opportunity to give this "good mounting evidence" to us in more detail.

          THEN you, in your snarkiness go on to chastise those in "denial in the face of a snowballing mountain of evidence", WOW, "mountain of evidence"
          PLEASE good sir/madam, please go into more detail as to what the mountain of evidence is, there MUST be ALOT to constitute a mountain.


          I think, in all your snarkiness, it's just a fabrication on your part ( about evidence you profess), and I do believe you go on to exaggerate your fabricate ( and suddenly it's a mountain).
          Please be specific on your claims (BACK UP WHAT YOU SAY WITH SUBSTANCE), or respectfully shut up already. It's one thing to voice a stupid opinion as a fact, but to continually push something down others throats with annoyance without backing it up is bullshit. In my opinion, you are NO asset to this website.

          Before you whine about this being about you, WELL it's only about YOU because you choose to be a disengenous snarky shit stirrer and I'm replying to the post YOU made.
          I'm not looking to argue with you budgie, I'm calling you out on what you post and want you to back up your assertions or quit making them. Otherwise you look like an asshole trying to push buttons.

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          • #50
            Originally posted by Sideline View Post
            TheKiwi told you in his post that the burden of proof (evidence) is on the investigators and people like YOU who proclaim/assert his guilt. Then he goes further to tell you the current state of the investigation is that of unfounded rumors, and that declairing any guilt based on rumors is a "piss-poor"/impropper way of doing it.
            That's the message I recieved from his post, and you replied to it.

            Your opening response is you say it's "true"....you AGREE.
            TheKiwi told you to date there is ONLY RUMORS, and YOU AGREED.

            Right away tho you go into your snarkiness about how Mueller didn't show you the dossier when you had lunch with him. I get maybe you think it's cute, but honestly it makes you look like a douche when you bring no substance and only seem to post to be argumentative for the sake of being argumentative regardless if you can back your argument up.
            You then claim mounting evidence "the evidence is good". WHAT evidence budgie? Please take this opportunity to give this "good mounting evidence" to us in more detail.

            THEN you, in your snarkiness go on to chastise those in "denial in the face of a snowballing mountain of evidence", WOW, "mountain of evidence"
            PLEASE good sir/madam, please go into more detail as to what the mountain of evidence is, there MUST be ALOT to constitute a mountain.


            I think, in all your snarkiness, it's just a fabrication on your part ( about evidence you profess), and I do believe you go on to exaggerate your fabricate ( and suddenly it's a mountain).
            Please be specific on your claims (BACK UP WHAT YOU SAY WITH SUBSTANCE), or respectfully shut up already. It's one thing to voice a stupid opinion as a fact, but to continually push something down others throats with annoyance without backing it up is bullshit. In my opinion, you are NO asset to this website.

            Before you whine about this being about you, WELL it's only about YOU because you choose to be a disengenous snarky shit stirrer and I'm replying to the post YOU made.
            I'm not looking to argue with you budgie, I'm calling you out on what you post and want you to back up your assertions or quit making them. Otherwise you look like an asshole trying to push buttons.

            Two posts huh?

            I've been posting articles and reports for months now but you likely haven't seen them if you've just arrived. Go back over my history to find all the links and quotes, but I believe the evidence presented so far looks pretty bad for trump.

            As Kiwi said he is legally innocent until proven guilty. And based on the witnesses turned, meetings uncovered and convictions obtained so far I believe that eventually he will be found to have committed crimes. I have also argued in this very thread with video links to the actual words, though with two posts under your belt you probably missed it, that trump's own statements incriminate him.

            So go back over the history of this case, google 'evidence of trump collusion' or 'obstruction' and get back to us. There is a story here and it is about trump BTW.

            Comment


            • #51
              double post
              Last edited by Asheren; 13-06-2018, 03:21 AM.

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              • #52
                Originally posted by Jonathan View Post

                You're passing off made up things as facts.
                Well trumpetes are geting their knickers in a twist for a reason over mistress issue.
                Belive it or not misstres affair is actualy something he can end up in prison for. It does not even matter if he used election fund to do soo. Simply you pay someone to keep mouth shut about something that could make you look bad to voters, during elections you commit a crime.

                ps. before our resident trupetes go on rampage i don't give a flying f.. if he did or did not pay her to keep mouth shut

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                • #53
                  Originally posted by budgie View Post


                  This is true and that's what the investigation is about and why it must keep on cracking. In my case Mr Mueller didn't show me the dossier last time we sat down for lunch. And yes it is technically wrong of me to assume just because the mounting evidence looks bad that Trump is therefore guilty. But it is good evidence.

                  And this top-to-bottom denial in the face of a snowballing mountain of evidence is equally disingenuous. Especially for those who still think Obama is a Kenyan, or subscribe to the Benghazi blame game or any other unproven GOP-manufactured scandal.


                  Lemmesee what's your favorite word for this? Ah yes, deflection. You come here and puke out your bizarre conspiracy theories without a shred of evidence, proclaim Trump guilty of "obstruction" again without the tiniest bit of evidence and then bitch about birthers and the Benghazi debacle? The "dossier" which you are so fond of was bought and paid for by Hillary Clinton and been thoroughly discredited as fake. There really is something broken between your ears, you know this, right? I'd love to see you hauled in front of a Judge by a prosecutor whose only charge against you was that you must be guilty of SOMETHING!!! Doesn't work that way here unless your name is Donald Trump.
                  Last edited by riderboy; 13-06-2018, 04:50 AM.

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by Asheren View Post
                    Well trumpetes are geting their knickers in a twist for a reason over mistress issue.
                    Belive it or not misstres affair is actualy something he can end up in prison for. It does not even matter if he used election fund to do soo. Simply you pay someone to keep mouth shut about something that could make you look bad to voters, during elections you commit a crime.

                    ps. before our resident trupetes go on rampage i don't give a flying f.. if he did or did not pay her to keep mouth shut
                    Not sure what they tell you over there, but I’m afraid Polish news has misled you.

                    Hell, even the majority of Democrats never cared about the porn star thing even at the time it was talked about nonstop on CNN

                    https://poll.qu.edu/national/release...ReleaseID=2534

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      My point if view about all this.

                      I wouldn't be surprised if Trump is guilty.
                      Don't like him and think he is an idiot.

                      However I think the same about most politicians.
                      Just find him even more repulsive.

                      So. Until someone is able to prove beyond a doubt that he is guilty I am going to go with innocent.
                      And groan every time he says or does something stupid or hypocritical.

                      There is no point getting all worked up at each other over this crap because no one on here knows anything for sure (probably).

                      Beliefs and opinions are nice but they are not facts.

                      I prefer this forum to outlast his administration.
                      Coming on here is one of the few things I still bother with on the internet because you guys (and gals) keep things interesting.

                      In totally unrelated things...
                      ...I found out Peru got rid of their cruiser.
                      Makes me sad.

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by Jonathan View Post
                        Not sure what they tell you over there, but I’m afraid Polish news has misled you.

                        Hell, even the majority of Democrats never cared about the porn star thing even at the time it was talked about nonstop on CNN

                        https://poll.qu.edu/national/release...ReleaseID=2534
                        You put poll where question was asked about having an affair its not an issue here. Neither it is if averange US citizen gives a f.. or not. Especialy given that averange burger is even dumber in terms of legal issues than averange european and that is an achievment on its own. Actualy you just only shown exactly the issue trumpets have here. The poll shows most belive she was paid to keep her mouth shut with Trump knowning it and like i said this is a crime in US.

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Originally posted by Hildemel View Post
                          My point if view about all this.

                          I wouldn't be surprised if Trump is guilty.
                          Don't like him and think he is an idiot.

                          However I think the same about most politicians.
                          Just find him even more repulsive.

                          So. Until someone is able to prove beyond a doubt that he is guilty I am going to go with innocent.
                          And groan every time he says or does something stupid or hypocritical.

                          There is no point getting all worked up at each other over this crap because no one on here knows anything for sure (probably).

                          Beliefs and opinions are nice but they are not facts.

                          I prefer this forum to outlast his administration.
                          Coming on here is one of the few things I still bother with on the internet because you guys (and gals) keep things interesting.

                          In totally unrelated things...
                          ...I found out Peru got rid of their cruiser.
                          Makes me sad.
                          I would be surprised if Trump is guilty. An ongoing 2 year rectal exam from Congress, the press, a Special Counsel, the Democrats, The FB/DOJ/IRS and budgie has found nothing
                          Don't like him and don't think he's an idiot.

                          He's a problem solver, not a politician.
                          He certainly can be repulsive

                          I'm sad about the Peruvian cruiser as well. Don't know why.

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Considering how long an investigation can drag on for the average citizen for serious crimes it wouldn't surprise me if we never find out one way or the other.

                            I am torn on the idiot part.
                            I am not sure if he is one or just acts like one (in my opinion) on purpose.

                            Maybe because it was the last "big gun" ship in the world and it belonged to a country that isn't, and never was, a global power.

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Originally posted by riderboy View Post



                              You come here and puke out your bizarre conspiracy theories without a shred of evidence, proclaim Trump guilty of "obstruction" again without the tiniest bit of evidence and then bitch about birthers and the Benghazi debacle? .
                              Aaah evidence:

                              Evidence of collusion: including meetings with the Russians, calling for help from foreign hackers and generally sucking putin's cock, which I hear is much longer and thicker than Trumps.

                              Evidence of obstruction: including constantly poisoning the public perception with denials on twitter, dictating false statements to be read, pardoning allies as a message to witnesses he wants to tamper with and admitting it on live TV

                              Evidence of corruption: redirecting campaign money to pay off mistresses, breaking the emoluments clause by profiting from his businesses as a public figure, exempting business partners from tariffs, family firms profiting from patents and sweetheart deals with foreign governments because their daddy is president.

                              The birther and Benghazi examples were not a deflection: these so-called scandals were kept alive on rumor and innuendo alone. By contrast, there are mountains of hard evidence stemming from a year long investigation across multiple states and agencies against Trump and his associates, who are rolling and singing like canaries because the bastard never inspired nor showed any loyalty in his life. Choose to ignore it if you want, or dismiss it as fake news which is the easy excuse, but nobody can claim there is 'not a shred'.

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                You know that pretty much all of the articles that google links to say "no evidence of collusion" don't you. Likewise calling for the same people who hacked Clinton's server to release the evidence isn't collusion either.

                                Making bollox statements whether on Twatter or otherwise is what politicians do. I think you'd have to show that this was above and beyond the usual political BS for that to apply. Pardoning people - that's what Presidents do too. Maybe you should look at the pardoning records of his predecessors before deciding that this is unusual.

                                Corruption is about as close as you're going to get. However once again this is simply typical behaviour of politicians, it's neither exceptional nor at a particularly high end of the scale.

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