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  • #91
    I'VE GOT IT!! This is Russia's payback for stealing the election for Trump! Of course! At first I thought it was tax reform, or bombing Syrian AFBs. Got to be this. IMPEACH!!

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    • #92
      Originally posted by riderboy View Post
      I'VE GOT IT!! This is Russia's payback for stealing the election for Trump! Of course! At first I thought it was tax reform, or bombing Syrian AFBs. Got to be this. IMPEACH!!
      And soon Trump, who is literally worse than Hitler and a sexist, corrupt, disgusting, brain-dead, impotent, psychiatrically impaired, unfit for duty, nazi, racist, kkk-loving slim ball will get impeached!

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      • #93
        Originally posted by Afterglow View Post
        So, things have started rolling in the West Bank it seems. Just seen some burning tires and mild rock throwing at the army in Betlehem, rally in Ramallah and apparently things are picking up pace a bit. How far will things go? Are these makings of another round of intifada?
        Nope. Too many Palestinians live too well now to risk serious damage to their stable and growing economy.

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        • #94
          So far the only country that has partially supported Trumps recognition of Jerusalem are the Czech's, per usual. Europe continues to play both sides in fear of more terror attacks against European citizens. In particular, PM Thersa May citing that it will prohibit peaceful talks in the future. Yet, Great Britain still can't get over their quarrels during the Menachem Begin era. The Western World knows that a two state solution is not attainable, but its about staying popular, keeping ones party happy and getting reelected.

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          • #95
            Originally posted by J.Noah ה View Post
            So far the only country that has partially supported Trumps recognition of Jerusalem are the Czech's, per usual. Europe continues to play both sides in fear of more terror attacks against European citizens.
            Rightly or wrongly the Americans are expected to and occasionally attempt to, play some sort of mediation role in resolving the conflict. Pissing off one side and all of their regional allys was not a diplomatic move in that regard.

            Originally posted by J.Noah ה View Post
            The Western World knows that a two state solution is not attainable, but its about staying popular, keeping ones party happy and getting reelected.
            So what are the alternatives? We can't maintain the status quo indefinitely and I doubt Israel annexing the entire region is going to be popular either.

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            • #96
              Originally posted by J.Noah ה View Post
              So far the only country that has partially supported Trumps recognition of Jerusalem are the Czech's, per usual. Europe continues to play both sides in fear of more terror attacks against European citizens. In particular, PM Thersa May citing that it will prohibit peaceful talks in the future. Yet, Great Britain still can't get over their quarrels during the Menachem Begin era. The Western World knows that a two state solution is not attainable, but its about staying popular, keeping ones party happy and getting reelected.
              Or maybe The EU thinks that Trump is a Fu***** Moron, and you dont take such action without you coordinates with your allies.
              Even The Pope thinks is a bad idea.

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              • #97
                Originally posted by Corrupt View Post

                Rightly or wrongly the Americans are expected to and occasionally attempt to, play some sort of mediation role in resolving the conflict. Pissing off one side and all of their regional allys was not a diplomatic move in that regard.



                So what are the alternatives? We can't maintain the status quo indefinitely and I doubt Israel annexing the entire region is going to be popular either.
                I don´t believe in a two state solution. in 95 perhaps, but too much has happened since then...including brutal terrorist attacks against Israelis that led to a standstill since the early 2000´s.

                We had as of now a bad statu quo with an issue not acceptable by one of the parties (Israel) and accepted by the other (but with the intent of making further claims in the future). We have led the Palestinians to believe they would have their state even though that goal was not reachable, instead of working more realistically in providing a territory that they would run in autonomy, but inside the Israeli sphere, and with no international existence.

                I believe this is fair and achievable with the right partners. But the Palestinians should not be led to believe in something higher. It would also help if Israel were ready to concede this to something more than confetti areas, not even interconnected. I think the West bank Arabs, who are citizens of nothing, deserve more than what they have. And peace should always be the end of the horizon, even if the road to it seems endless.

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                • #98
                  Originally posted by Corrupt View Post

                  Rightly or wrongly the Americans are expected to and occasionally attempt to, play some sort of mediation role in resolving the conflict. Pissing off one side and all of their regional allys was not a diplomatic move in that regard.
                  How do you classify the Oslo Initiatve by Prresident Clinton then? President Obama also lead a two state initiatve that was not in favor of Israel. No matter what anyone does, someone will not be happy.



                  So what are the alternatives? We can't maintain the status quo indefinitely and I doubt Israel annexing the entire region is going to be popular either.
                  I dont think their is an easy anawer. If it wasn't for the Syrian mess, the international community would of continued pressing Israel into concessions without guaranteed peace. Its not about annexing, its just the U.S finally recognized Jerusalem as its capital.

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                  • #99
                    Originally posted by Corrupt View Post

                    Rightly or wrongly the Americans are expected to and occasionally attempt to, play some sort of mediation role in resolving the conflict. Pissing off one side and all of their regional allys was not a diplomatic move in that regard.



                    So what are the alternatives? We can't maintain the status quo indefinitely and I doubt Israel annexing the entire region is going to be popular either.
                    Pissing off one side? When were the Arabs NOT pissed off. I've watched this my whole life, waiting for some sort of resolution, but frankly it seems that the Palestinians don't want a solution.

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                    • Originally posted by Scarren View Post

                      Or maybe The EU thinks that Trump is a Fu***** Moron, and you dont take such action without you coordinates with your allies.
                      Even The Pope thinks is a bad idea.
                      Its probably a mixture of both, but Europe had always been pretty fickle with Israel through out the different U.S administration's. Historically, the Palestinian Mandate era penned Zionism in a negative light in some European countires.

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                      • Originally posted by Scarren View Post

                        Or maybe The EU thinks that Trump is a Fu***** Moron, and you dont take such action without you coordinates with your allies.
                        Even The Pope thinks is a bad idea.
                        I pose the question to you, but it is really a global matter ... perhaps, rhetorical.

                        1. What EXACTLY did Trump declare?

                        2. How EXACTLY does Trump's declaration deviate from Oslo?

                        3. Does Trump's declaration allow for a Palestinian Al Quds capital city?

                        ***

                        The answers to all of the above question can be answered in reference to the word, or lack thereof, "undivided".

                        Trump never said the word "undivided", which means that the declaration in no way deviates from Oslo, and does not preclude a division between Jerusalem and Al Quds as part of a future final peace deal.

                        However, the declaration did accomplish the following:

                        1. Acknowledge the long standing fact that Jerusalem, the western portion to be precise, is the seat of government for the state of Israel.

                        2. Put the Palestinians, and their worldwide sycophants, on notice that the pipe dream of destroying Israel and dictating the negotiation by threat of violence are over.

                        3. Belie latent hypocrisy. Any country who thinks West Jerusalem is not part of Israel, and should not be the seat of government, is not seriously interested in a future final peace deal.

                        If Abbas had any lick of sense, he would welcome the resolution, and make a statement to the effect:
                        - we recognize Israel's claim to the west
                        - we hope Israel will recognize our claim to the east
                        - we will continue to work with our partners for peace

                        Had he done that, he would come off as a statesman and usurped Trump's prominence (in a good way).

                        Instead, he is acting like a petulant child, throwing a hissy fit, and worse: allowing Netanyahu to interpret Trump's declaration as recognition of "undivided" Jerusalem.

                        But then again, Abbas is not a statesman so ... yeah.

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                        • Originally posted by Scarren View Post

                          Or maybe The EU thinks that Trump is a Fu***** Moron, and you dont take such action without you coordinates with your allies.
                          Even The Pope thinks is a bad idea.
                          This is somewhat OT

                          BUT

                          I get it that many people don't like Trump for many reasons. I think he is problematic on many levels. Probably an asshole as person, and his decision with the National Monuments is terribly disappointing.

                          That said, to dismiss Trump as a "fucking idiot" is really self defeating. People have been saying that for ever, and look where he is today.

                          Don't like him, fine. But dismiss him as an idiot at your peril, cause he is most likely the smartest guy in the room.

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                          • TOI has a number of article about how the Arab and Muslim world has gone bonkers, again.

                            Riots in Pakistan ... Like I give a fuck.

                            Riots in the WB ... What else is new?

                            Shiites threatening US forces ... This is news?

                            Still waiting for Erdogan to follow up on his threats, though.

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                            • Originally posted by GB_FXST View Post

                              This is somewhat OT

                              BUT

                              I get it that many people don't like Trump for many reasons. I think he is problematic on many levels. Probably an asshole as person, and his decision with the National Monuments is terribly disappointing.

                              That said, to dismiss Trump as a "fucking idiot" is really self defeating. People have been saying that for ever, and look where he is today.

                              Don't like him, fine. But dismiss him as an idiot at your peril, cause he is most likely the smartest guy in the room.
                              Not sure about smartest. However, this move creates leverage. It lets Abbas know that there are consequences for his recalcitrance. It lets Bibi know that he cannot turn down Trump's peace proposal.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by GB_FXST View Post

                                This is somewhat OT

                                BUT

                                I get it that many people don't like Trump for many reasons. I think he is problematic on many levels. Probably an asshole as person, and his decision with the National Monuments is terribly disappointing.

                                That said, to dismiss Trump as a "fucking idiot" is really self defeating. People have been saying that for ever, and look where he is today.

                                Don't like him, fine. But dismiss him as an idiot at your peril, cause he is most likely the smartest guy in the room.
                                Pretty well said GB_FXST and a hell of a lot more polite than I would be answering Scarren. Trump was elected to be President of the USA after 8 years of a very "vanilla" politically correct arse kissing Obama.

                                Trump certainly isn't everyone's "cup of tea" from the EU to the Pope, Denmark, Germany to England. That is fine with me and most other Trump supporters. We really don't care about those who are grossly offended (who are not voters).

                                Kind of like some officers, and NCOs, may not be the kind of guys one wants to hang out with at a bar, or play cards with, drink beer with...but they are put in their position of power because they are good leaders, know how to lead, make decisions, accept responsibility, accept the hate of those who disagree with them for assigning them guard duty while others are sleeping.

                                Takes a tough man to be a leader, / POTUS.

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