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  • Climate Change thread, define, discussion, science, global warming?

    This thread for the discussion of "Climate Change" which is either science, ideology, political or whatever. Will someone plz attempt to DEFINE what is meant by the term "climate change" before we start beating each other with a sock full of chit?

    There seems to be a lot of discussion about if C.C. is proved by "science" or not. How long CC has been going on, what / who caused it, and where it rates on the danger scale for the Earth and mankind.

    Fire away.


  • #2
    What I remember from my classes back in the days when I was studying Geological Sciences: climate change is, in itself, a natural phenomenon. Climate changes periodically and cyclically.

    It happened before, it is happening as we speak and it will happen again.

    Our teachers used to say: "there is an old saying that has been going around for decades, if not centuries, and usually uttered by old people: seasons are not what they used to be". Which seems to suggest that, "back in the days" (of our grandparents, great grandparents, great-great-great grandparents, etc...), climate changes could be witnessed.


    Now, the main concern of our time is: man made climate change.

    Does climate change exist? Yes.
    Can man influence it and exacerbate it? Most likely, yes.


    But the question is: are they climatic events we are currently witnessing directly linked to climate change? And, if yes, is man responsible for it?
    Last edited by Ivan le Fou; 20-09-2017, 12:32 PM.

    Comment


    • #3
      Distrust of science has increasingly become a tentpole for the conservative movement. I view it as a piece of the larger rural-urban dichotomy of American (and to my understanding European) culture. When some pinhead in a lab-coat who probably can't even load a .50 cal starts questioning your sacred beliefs you are going to turn your brain off to any incoming evidence to the contrary. And thus for some people science is wrong on global warming in the same manner that science is wrong in regard to evolution or the morality of stem-cell research.

      As for the agenda in question? That would of course be Agenda 21 which is but a chapter in the larger globalist/big-brother/New World Order/Sign of the Beast/Death Camps narrative that is oft espoused by people working for major corporations who -- in all likelihood -- would be sitting at the table with the Illuminati and the Reptilicons and the Greys (and Jane Fonda and George Soros) who want to take your .50 cal, make you renounce the Lord, and turn you gay.

      The other agenda? Scientists getting fat off all those government grants. Like those lying scientists who slandered the innocent tobacco industry all those years back. The cigarette companies give us low-tar cigarettes and the energy industry gives us clean coal. All while standing up to the socialist juggernaut that would strange American capitalist ingenuity.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Ivan le Fou View Post
        What I remember from my classes back in the days when I was studying Geological Sciences: climate change is, in itself, a natural phenomenon. Climate changes periodically and cyclically.

        It happened before, it is happening as we speak and it will happen again.

        Our teachers used to say: "there is an old saying that has been going around for decades, if not centuries, and usually uttered by old people: seasons are not what they used to be". Which seems to suggest that, "back in the days" (of our grandparents, great grandparents, great-great-great grandparents, etc...), climate changes could been witnessed.


        Now, the main concern of our time is: man made climate change.

        Does climate change exist? Yes.
        Can man influence it and exacerbate it? Most likely, yes.


        But the question is: are they climatic events we are currently witnessing directly linked to climate change? And, if yes, is man responsible for it?
        well said Ivan, I agree 100%. For many decades I have studied (as a hobby and due to my interests) archaeology and ancient man in the Americas, and due to that also climate change in N.A. and the Ice ages (glacial periods, glaciers moving south to below the Canada / USA border and then back again) as well as the "Little Ice Age" and times when mammoths, mastodons, Smiledons, large ancient Bison Antiquus roamed the plains, etc.

        In other words, animals the Paleo Indians in N.A. hunted and how they hunted them, stored the meat in near frozen waters of fresh water ponds (like a refrigerator) etc.
        I have studied these things for 50 years, longer than many here have been alive. I do not claim to know everything about climate, but I do know the climate of earth has changed drastically in the last 15,000 years.


        In short I certainly think the climate will and has changed, but the amount of change caused by man, is so low that it is tiny. For the last 65 years man has had to capacity to turn the world into a human-less chunk of dirt, with millions of dead humans providing plantfood for plants that won't grow due to lack of sunlight.

        The climate change "believers" as I understand their aim/ point is that CC is the MOST important thing in the world and needs everyone to abandon all western living.....which sounds a lot like the hippie dippy communes back in 1967. ala Al Gore and Bill Nye the Science Guy.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by commanding View Post
          This thread for the discussion of "Climate Change" which is either science, ideology, political or whatever. Will someone plz attempt to DEFINE what is meant by the term "climate change" before we start beating each other with a sock full of chit?

          There seems to be a lot of discussion about if C.C. is proved by "science" or not. How long CC has been going on, what / who caused it, and where it rates on the danger scale for the Earth and mankind.

          Fire away.
          "Climate change" a term used once there was no "Global Warming".........

          I got a kicking on MP net by just about everybody when I said that the data sets had been *ucked about with and at some stage it would all be seen as a big con. Well that day has come - settled science, what a crock of *hite. More like the kings new clothes. That Gore guy made a load of $$$$$'s

          Next phoney get together of the IPCC is in November - cannot wait to see what the report says this time - it will get warmer honest - bury head in melting glacier
          http://unfccc.int/meetings/bonn_nov_...ting/10084.php

          Just need a nice eruption in Italy and we could see another ice age

          I better take cover now and go and see if I can find my hockey stick - I was going to stick the links up to the now admitted failure of the climate models being too warmist - so thanks Commanding

          Comment


          • #6
            I personally lean towards a cyclical weather phenomenon, prayed upon by scientist fat cats targeting god fearing job creators.

            Comment


            • #7
              I'll see your measly little smoke/steam stacks and raise you one volcano and cow farts.


              Comment


              • #8
                And here we go again
                Memes, derogatory words and lack of in depth discussion
                I wrote it somewhere else, 21 st century is a century of witch hunt on science because of all net users that are self appointed experts while global human IQ is decreasing
                Do not also forget lobbies
                And the fact that medias (in paper, digital, screen form) and the net (again) give too wide echo chambers to anti-science people (that are dishonest crooks most of the time)

                So let's get the results :
                Vaccines are working and are important in public health ------------- large anti-vaxxers crowd thanks to the net and a few self appointed pseudo scientists
                Climate Change -------------------------------- Large mocking and denier crowd
                Evolution -------------------- large creationnist Crowd
                Round earth ----------------- we have come to the point that we have flat earther again
                HIV is a natural divergence from SIV --------------------not it is not either it's a Western WMD or white man fault because mismanagement of variola vaccination campaign)
                and i can multiply the examples : to be balanced shall i also talk about the extermination of rhinos for a horn that is supposed to cure sexual issues
                or the number of raped virgins to cure AIDS (method validated by some ""M.Ds")

                etc etc


                In the same time we have people believing in reptilians, chemtrails, hollow earth and a bunch of idotic things

                Note that the countries that are going anti science are the countries with a large proportion of religiously bigoted population and/or strong industrial lobbies

                Believing in God (The God, Mine!!because others are BS!! And i am Right) or "God" (the $$/free for all -but mainly my little person- Capitalism) is not compatible anymore with Science

                We are back to the Dark Age; Plain and Simple
                And before the usual "yada yada but grants, money yada yada". Let's get this straight : science was never as underfunded as today
                Proportion of accepted grants has shrinked and on the money sent, proportion of administration costs has skyrocketted with administration/management hassles being bigger and bigger
                Precarity of human ressources has also increased greatly

                When you don't know shit about how it works in labs, institutions, and you don't understand the issue, the subject nor its finality , don't talk about Science..............


                Last edited by Mordoror; 21-09-2017, 12:02 AM.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Isn't carbon credits suppose to be funding all that or is it all locked up in some trees in some new carbon neutral forest..there must be some vast new amazon size forest that we don't know about. Bit like holding certificates in gold. Its paper only and unfortunately not actual carbon saving wood.
                  Probably one of the best cons the globalist elite have pulled has been carbon credits to mitigate global warming. Vanishing overseas, controlled by a group on the tax haven Isle of Man. Oh the irony.

                  "Some sources [21] shows that UK financial service wins a lot from Carbon credit trade. The profit is evident if one check the statistics: London has secured dominance on the global carbon trading market, with net value $64bn in 2007, according to the report by International Financial Services London. London controlled about 90% of the exchange market (Carbon credit vs money) in 2007. London-based companies made about 59% of the purchases of Carbon credits issued by the UN. And some of the Carbon credit's system creators are from UK, for example, the economist, former Senior Vice-President of the World Bank and government economic advisor in the United Kingdom Nicholas Stern, Baron Stern of Brentford who has founded a consultancy-trading agency "The Carbon Rating Agency (CRA)" [22] on the Isle-of-Man (controlled by firm IDEAglobal Group [23] there Stern was a Vice Chairman at that time [24]) for Carbon credit evaluation and firm's rating and making money on that. [25]"


                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Isn't carbon credits suppose to be funding all
                    Carbon credit has been diverted (as it is always the case with big corporate that have excellent fund optimization desks) into a tax escape loophole, a new trade ressource or a plain illegal money laundering system

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Mordoror View Post

                      In the same time we have people believing in reptilians, chemtrails, hollow earth and a bunch of idotic things

                      Note that the countries that are going anti science are the countries with a large proportion of religiously bigoted population and/or strong industrial lobbies

                      Believing in God (The God, Mine!!because others are BS!! And i am Right) or "God" (the $$/free for all -but mainly my little person- Capitalism) is not compatible anymore with Science

                      We are back to the Dark Age; Plain and Simple
                      And before the usual "yada yada but grants, money yada yada". Let's get this straight : science was never as underfunded as today
                      Proportion of accepted grants has shrinked and on the money sent, proportion of administration costs has skyrocketted with administration/management hassles being bigger and bigger
                      Precarity of human ressources has also increased greatly

                      When you don't know shit about how it works in labs, institutions, and you don't understand the issue, the subject nor its finality , don't talk about Science..............


                      What you said before the quote, but I disagree with the part above. The third worlds shitholes who are often religious tends to have more faith in science and have been proactive in try to do something about it. Case in point China clamping down on its pollution at a afaster rate than most in the west. The Scinece deniers or witch hunt is mostly strong in the west where the population have too much time in their hands...

                      Chemtrails
                      AntiVacc
                      FlatEarth etc.... is mostly heard in the west.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Junglejim View Post
                        Case in point China clamping down on its pollution at a afaster rate than most in the west.
                        Considering the pollution emitted by China, reducing it was not that hard.
                        And though it has been "clamped down", air pollution in China was at its worst in December 2016 with airborne pollutants exceeding 100 times the safe limit in many regions.
                        Let's not talk about water pollution.

                        Same thing goes in India.


                        But I can see a reason behind the difference between Rich countries and poor/"poor" countries:
                        -the West has, as you said, way too much free time on its hands, creating groups advocating in favor of literal regressions. Some being effectively harmful (antivacc) some being largely harmless, apart for your IQ (flat-earthers, chemtrails conspiracy, etc...).
                        -poor and "poor" countries do not care. Protecting the environment is not their priorities, at best. Corruption, greed, lack of traceability, absence of common sense, etc...

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          yes, man-made climate change is real.

                          Yet carbon credits and taxes are a joke. They do not address the problem.

                          Polluting industries should be made to clean up their own mess, period.

                          The problem with both the carbon credit system and with using government funds to deal with problems after they occur, is that they socialize the cost. Private companies get to privatize their gains by taking shortcuts and the rest of us end up paying for the shitty results. Stricter enforcement in the first place would make sure polluters spend what is necessary in the first place to ensure pollution is kept to a minimum.

                          And if it eats into profits, fuck 'em.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Junglejim View Post


                            What you said before the quote, but I disagree with the part above. The third worlds shitholes who are often religious tends to have more faith in science and have been proactive in try to do something about it. Case in point China clamping down on its pollution at a afaster rate than most in the west. The Scinece deniers or witch hunt is mostly strong in the west where the population have too much time in their hands...

                            Chemtrails
                            AntiVacc
                            FlatEarth etc.... is mostly heard in the west.
                            Well yes and no
                            I mostly agree with you that Science has still an aura in the Southern countries but at the same time a lot of them are scourged by bigotry, false beliefs, etc
                            Believe me, i work enough with African countries to know that
                            A little history told yesterday by one M.D that was among the first to work on pediatric HIV in Central Africa (Lab Unit meeting) : He showed some pictures of healthy kids and pointed at one 16y teen saying that this one was lucky to be healthy. His mother didn't wanted to let him enter in the follow program when he was 6 months old cause God will save him, not white man pills. It's the Grand Ma that bypassed the mother and helped the kid to enlist at the M.D proposal.
                            The kid is well and good, the mother is dead (yes, because God and prayers will heal her out too)...
                            It's a very representative story of what can happen in some third world countries
                            And if it is not God, it's the Witch Doctor or the Spirits bt ( i have tenth of stories like that to tell)

                            BTW anti Vaxx and Creationnism is not limited to the West
                            There is a large crowd in some NE/ME countries. To the point that Evolution is officialy forbidden in first grades classrooms in Turkey

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Mordoror View Post
                              And here we go again
                              Memes, derogatory words and lack of in depth discussion
                              I wrote it somewhere else, 21 st century is a century of witch hunt on science because of all net users that are self appointed experts while global human IQ is decreasing
                              Do not also forget lobbies
                              And the fact that medias (in paper, digital, screen form) and the net (again) give too wide echo chambers to anti-science people (that are dishonest crooks most of the time)

                              So let's get the results :
                              Vaccines are working and are important in public health ------------- large anti-vaxxers crowd thanks to the net and a few self appointed pseudo scientists
                              Climate Change -------------------------------- Large mocking and denier crowd
                              Evolution -------------------- large creationnist Crowd
                              Round earth ----------------- we have come to the point that we have flat earther again
                              HIV is a natural divergence from SIV --------------------not it is not either it's a Western WMD or white man fault because mismanagement of variola vaccination campaign)
                              and i can multiply the examples : to be balanced shall i also talk about the extermination of rhinos for a horn that is supposed to cure sexual issues
                              or the number of raped virgins to cure AIDS (method validated by some ""M.Ds")

                              etc etc


                              In the same time we have people believing in reptilians, chemtrails, hollow earth and a bunch of idotic things

                              Note that the countries that are going anti science are the countries with a large proportion of religiously bigoted population and/or strong industrial lobbies

                              Believing in God (The God, Mine!!because others are BS!! And i am Right) or "God" (the $$/free for all -but mainly my little person- Capitalism) is not compatible anymore with Science

                              We are back to the Dark Age; Plain and Simple
                              And before the usual "yada yada but grants, money yada yada". Let's get this straight : science was never as underfunded as today
                              Proportion of accepted grants has shrinked and on the money sent, proportion of administration costs has skyrocketted with administration/management hassles being bigger and bigger
                              Precarity of human ressources has also increased greatly

                              When you don't know shit about how it works in labs, institutions, and you don't understand the issue, the subject nor its finality , don't talk about Science..............

                              Your argument is typical of the attempts to shame people who don't swallow your catastrophic global climate change scenarios without questioning the "science" behind it. Lumping anti-vaccinations, "flat earth" societies and other ludicrous anti-science groups with climate deniers is just one more tactic employed by the those pushing their political agendas. Accept it all as WE say, or you must belong to these other anti-science groups as well. It's incredibly patronizing and arrogant. All the while forgetting that every prediction about catastrophic global climate change made by "scientists" has been absolutely WRONG, and that climate modeling is not science, but a guessing game. Need I post those failed predictions dating back to the first Earth Day? Is that your science? Your religion? Like it or not politics has tainted and effectively destroyed your "science" argument so effectively I think the people questioning what the hell is going on should be applauded. The new tactic employed by the climate change advocates is that the individual does't matter. That's right, anyone can pretty well do whatever they want as far as their carbon footprint is concerned, it's really the big evil corporations we want control of. LOL!! Wow. Suddenly your "science" doesn't matter for the individual. Gotta go burn some more styrofoam!!

                              Al Gore’s Carbon Footprint Doesn’t Matter

                              Conservatives say environmentalists are hypocrites if they consume more energy than the average American. It's a deceitful, disingenuous argument.


                              ..... But climate change advocates who don’t live a carbon-neutral lifestyle aren’t hypocrites because, for the most part, they’re not asking you to live a carbon-neutral lifestyle. They’re asking governments, utilities, energy companies, and large corporations to increase their use of renewable energy so that you can continue to live your life as you please, without contributing to global warming.
                              https://newrepublic.com/article/1441...-doesnt-matter

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