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Day against homophobia and transphobia... How communities differ

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  • #76
    The funny thing about transgenderism is it actually negates the purpose of feminism. The creed of feminism is that women are not social appendices of men but an equal gender that should be treated as such; in other words, they go to great lengths arguing that women aren't men. Now cue to transgenderism that says women can be men and men women if they like. Blimey!

    Originally posted by Jonathan View Post
    The only prohibition should be against speech which directly incites violence.
    I beg to differ in this particular regard as your implied definition of "directly incit[ing]" is too narrow in my humble opinion --- and I state this even though I oppose hate speech laws as the sum of my equation. He who calls another person "human waste" cannot logically argue he didn't mean this "waste" didn't belong into the trash. Nevermind the realm of jurisprudence or, heavens forbid, sociology; it's a matter of sheer logic, more precisely, it's an inverted argumentum ex concesso: You cannot plausibly declare that the logically necessary conclusion of your statement defies your intention. 'I want him to be murdered, but I don't want anyone to murder him' ? Nonsense.

    The problem with regards to Canada is they've moved far beyond that (surprisingly enough they're even ahead of Europe now). Their criteria defy the laws of logic and are utterly subjective.

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    • #77
      Originally posted by muck View Post
      I beg to differ in this particular regard as your implied definition of "directly incit[ing]" is too narrow in my humble opinion --- and I state this even though I oppose hate speech laws as the sum of my equation. He who calls another person "human waste" cannot logically argue he didn't mean this "waste" didn't belong into the trash.
      Calling someone a piece of shit (i.e. human waste) is a very common expression, and saying someone belongs in the trash should be protected speech as well. For example in the popular children's song, "Why Hillary is a piece of shit that belongs in the trash."

      Saying someone deserves something isn't in the same ballpark of actually taking action or calling on someone specific to take action and kill that person. For example, I think that rapists should have their balls cut off and that they belong in the trash. That doesn't mean I'm going to go out tonight and kill me some rapists.

      That's why non-pussified incitement laws impose very hefty standards to rule that certain speech isn't protected (e.g. must pose clear and present danger to specific people, etc). So yes, saying that [gays, women, men, boys, girls, leprechauns, etc] are POS should be protected speech and is considered as such in decent countries except those who've been pussified (like Canada) and who seek to protect specific groups from having their snowflake feelings hurt by "mean" comments. To paraphrase our constitution, "Fuck your Feelings, snowflakes."
      Last edited by Jonathan; 19-05-2017, 02:33 PM.

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      • #78
        Originally posted by JakeScully View Post
        Going from an extreme to another, sure, when I see the ISIS thugs throwing gays off high building in Raqqa, I somehow become more gay friendly. What do you expect from ISIS however... in Western Europe or in Murica, gosh, I'm not seeing much homophobia, from the natives at least, as mentioned in the OP by OrangeWolf. Their sexuality as long as kept private (in the bedroom) and between consensual adults is none of my business, and shouldn't be anyone else either.

        Interesting topic nonetheless and agree mostly with muck, that creating laws like the transgender restroom is going a tad too far. I dispise homophobia or LGBTQ phobia, like I despise xenophobia, antisemitism not because I like being PC, only because of the way these people have been treated in the past, from the middle-age to the dreaded Nazi era. I'm not that uptight and still love a good gay or dykes joke.

        A good point was made above that it's a tiny minority of the LGBTQ that's pushing for these controversial laws. Most homosexuals aren't even going to be married (so same sex marriage) as the marriage is indeed a reminder of a traditional religious ceremony in which generally speaking they don't believe at all for many of them.

        I'd be curious to read stats as to how many have married in the countries where it is now legal, namely The Netherlands, Spain, France and Canada to name a few. I'd bet not that many.
        I'm curious about that as well. I'd imagine gays in say Netherlands, Canada, France probably had it much easier than say those in Spain, USA or Italy so when it was legal there was far more requests in these places than in the former. But just a guess.

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        • #79
          Originally posted by Lyn View Post

          So basically, "I'm half-pregnant" type of approach.

          But seriously though, western civilization is becoming more disgusting and paradoxical by the hour.
          how so? Do you need a "safe space" to deal with people wishing to confirm their civil rights?

          Comment


          • #80
            Originally posted by Jonathan View Post
            decent countries except those who've been pussified (like Canada)
            Watching the hockey game right now. Listened to the Star Spangled Banner but had to mute it when they started the O Canada. Such a shitty country, so sad.

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            • #81
              Originally posted by breki View Post

              Watching the hockey game right now. Listened to the Star Spangled Banner but had to mute it when they started the O Canada. Such a shitty country, so sad.
              Their President (or "Prime Minister," whatever the hell that is):
              https://i.cbc.ca/1.3668898.146791259...e-20160703.jpg

              Our President:
              http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/d...psqbnfxgof.jpg

              Enough said.

              Comment


              • #82
                Trudeau is a complete shit pump..

                The fucking shit pump never had a real job in his life.

                New T-shirt campaign up here;
                https://www.google.com/search?q=make...w=1366&bih=612

                Comment


                • #83
                  Originally posted by Jonathan View Post
                  Their President (or "Prime Minister," whatever the hell that is):
                  https://i.cbc.ca/1.3668898.146791259...e-20160703.jpg

                  Our President:
                  http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/d...psqbnfxgof.jpg

                  Enough said.
                  Also, you forgot how awesome Washington was;



                  Comment


                  • #84
                    Originally posted by muck View Post
                    The funny thing about transgenderism is it actually negates the purpose of feminism. The creed of feminism is that women are not social appendices of men but an equal gender that should be treated as such; in other words, they go to great lengths arguing that women aren't men. Now cue to transgenderism that says women can be men and men women if they like. Blimey!
                    Imo, radical feminism negates transgenders, the more rational feminists agrees with the transgenders position that gender roles are a general social construct, non-restrictive extensive human identities that both male or female can relate to.



                    Comment


                    • #85
                      Originally posted by Jonathan View Post
                      Calling someone a piece of shit (i.e. human waste) is a very common expression, and saying someone belongs in the trash should be protected speech as well. For example in the popular children's song, "Why Hillary is a piece of shit that belongs in the trash."
                      Your example's quality does not convince me. "Piece of shit" is a common slur, human waste (i.e. not the waste a human procudes but rather a human that's trash and can be disposed of) is not. Not in the USA nor anywhere else would I, were I a mobster and had told my henchmen someone is a 'piece of waste that can be disposed of', count on being cleared from abetting murder if one of the guys who heard me had headed out to kill the person whose right to life I had denied.

                      Originally posted by Jonathan View Post
                      Saying someone deserves something isn't in the same ballpark of actually taking action or calling on someone specific to take action and kill that person. For example, I think that rapists should have their balls cut off and that they belong in the trash. That doesn't mean I'm going to go out tonight and kill me some rapists.
                      We weren't talking about "I think he/she/it deserves to die". On a scale from 1 to 10 you're always chosing a solid 1 to make your point.

                      So, you're telling me that if someone reads your comment on what should happen to rapists goes like "He's got it right, let's do that!" and offs a few rapists, they weren't incited by you?

                      Well, I suppose you're going to do just that. What if I could prove though (how exactly matters not) you made that statement to try and get people to kill rapists, would that not constitute an act of incitement?

                      Nevermind. Strictly speaking we needn't even discuss this since the Canadians are miles ahead of our examples.

                      By the way, what I had been writing in my earlier post is absolutely detached from any legal issue or a concept of human rights. Some wise slackers in ancient Rome found out more than 2000 years ago that you can't logically deny that you meant to say what logic dictates is the only possible meaning of your statement.


                      Originally posted by Jonathan View Post
                      That's why non-pussified incitement laws impose very hefty standards to rule that certain speech isn't protected (e.g. must pose clear and present danger to specific people, etc). So yes, saying that [gays, women, men, boys, girls, leprechauns, etc] are POS should be protected speech and is considered as such in decent countries except those who've been pussified (like Canada) and who seek to protect specific groups from having their snowflake feelings hurt by "mean" comments. To paraphrase our constitution, "Fuck your Feelings, snowflakes."
                      You know, every time an American laments the lack of free speech in "pussified" Western countries I wonder why it is that the U.S. do not lead the Human Freedom Index but Switzerland, New Zealand and Ireland do, followed by Denmark and (oh snap) Canada. Well, after today they're bound to drop back a bit in 2017's issue… Seriously though, this matter has been discussed to death before and needs no more discussing. I'm going to refuse to acknowledge the US might have gotten it better and you're going to refuse to acknowledge there might be more than one way to skin a cat.

                      Here's an anecdote though: The idea that a person who calls a minority 'human waste that can be disposed of' needs to be punished wasn't invented by liberals, pussies nor Europeans, but by the United States of America --- who either ordered (i.e. in the case of Germany, Austria and Italy) or strongly encouraged Europeans to write it into their laws. Now it's back to bite us in the ass.


                      Originally posted by Jonathan View Post
                      Their President (or "Prime Minister," whatever the hell that is):
                      https://i.cbc.ca/1.3668898.146791259...e-20160703.jpg

                      Our President:
                      http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/d...psqbnfxgof.jpg

                      Enough said.
                      No no no, this is their "president"! https://abload.de/img/wn-produktion-2016-04jil1i.jpg

                      Originally posted by nant View Post
                      Imo, radical feminism negates transgenders, the more rational feminists agrees with the transgenders position that gender roles are a general social construct, non-restrictive extensive human identities that both male or female can relate to.
                      I'd pay to see a meeting of the two kinds of feminists. And afterwards I suppose I'd die of an aneurysm.

                      Comment


                      • #86
                        Originally posted by Devil Child View Post

                        Who cares? Does how an individual choose to identify themselves really affect you at the end of the day? If it does that's on you and that is your choice to be butt-hurt. Not everything in life fits into some nice little box to address your discomfort or confusion.

                        Most LGBTQ folks I know don't care what you think of them(yea yea yeah, exceptions are out there I know this), they care more about protecting and advocating for protection of their civil rights. Hate away if you want, just expect push back when hate/bigotry/bias is pursued in legislation.

                        Oh you misunderstand me. I don't hate anybody. Don't care enough to. Just exercising my 1st amendment right. Making light of the situation. A joke here and there is actually very beneficial. See, when you make anything of this sort too serious conflict always follows. Crazy laws follow and it won't be long before a crazy law passes her like in Canada. People can call themselves whatever they want. I don't hate on them for it I make fun of them for it. If it sounds silly. Trans queer lesbian sounds silly to me.

                        Comment


                        • #87
                          Originally posted by epictetus View Post


                          Oh you misunderstand me. I don't hate anybody. Don't care enough to. Just exercising my 1st amendment right. Making light of the situation. A joke here and there is actually very beneficial. See, when you make anything of this sort too serious conflict always follows. Crazy laws follow and it won't be long before a crazy law passes her like in Canada. People can call themselves whatever they want. I don't hate on them for it I make fun of them for it. If it sounds silly. Trans queer lesbian sounds silly to me.
                          maybe it does indeed sound silly. Maybe it's worth a few laughs. Until you realize plenty of people who don't find it silly and want to kill off such people. Even perfectly mundane moderate people who wish these "people" would go away. They would deny them their civil rights. I realize trans men/women ain't exactly an easy concept for many. But it doesn't mean that we need to divide them or make them feel less then.

                          This country needs Unity. For all.

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                          • #88
                            Originally posted by TheFreeLegion View Post
                            But it doesn't mean that we need to divide them or make them feel less then.
                            There's a distinction of epic proportions between yelling that they should be put to death and refusing to address a dude in drag as 'Ma'am'. And I daresay this bill does do more harm to the hoped-for acceptance of transgenders than a whole protest rally of Russian nationalists who got armed by the Bible Belt.

                            Comment


                            • #89
                              I talked a bit with a trans person at the place I trained in Copenhagen.

                              Originally a she, but had some modifications done. Had not opted for a full transformation, so I was a bit confused about what pronoun to use. But since I'm pretty bad with names, my first inclination is always to address people with the polite hey you there! She also went by a girl's name, so everyone use she or her, when she was not around. I knew it probably wont sit well with her, but I went with what was easiest, where she was not around. It was a little awkward and sometimes confusing, but to me, it was just a matter of using a tiny bit of situational awareness.

                              The only problem I had with this person was, that she was a bit of a combative asshole surrounded by conflict and drama, but otherwise an entertaining acquaintance.

                              Comment


                              • #90
                                Originally posted by TheFreeLegion View Post
                                I really don't understand the levels of hatred some folks have against the LGBT community. No one says you have to approve or invite them over for a BBQ. But you need to respect that they are equal and have guaranteed civil rights same as everyone else.

                                But it's good to know such hatred is part of the losing battle. Less and less people are influenced by these nutjobs.
                                What civil rights are being denied to them? None as far as i can tell. Its all about not giving them extra rights, that the rest of us doesnt have.

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