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In praise of the Electoral College.

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  • In praise of the Electoral College.

    A brilliant solution crafted by the Founders to stop the tyranny of the majority and preserve the power of ALL the States in having their voices heard in selecting a President. It ain't broke, we don't need to fix it and in fact I think it's vital to maintain a representative Republic. Without it, only the issues affecting a few large densely populated areas of the country would be of any concern to a politician running for President. It's kept our country together for a long, long time and it needs to stay.


    http://thepeoplescube.com/peoples-bl...es-t19083.html

  • #2
    The electoral college is a disaster for a democracy.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Jµµso View Post
      The electoral college is a disaster for a democracy.
      This particular representative republic / democracy works perfectly fine with it.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by riderboy View Post
        A brilliant solution crafted by the Founders to stop the tyranny of the majority and preserve the power of ALL the States in having their voices heard in selecting a President. It ain't broke, we don't need to fix it and in fact I think it's vital to maintain a representative Republic. Without it, only the issues affecting a few large densely populated areas of the country would be of any concern to a politician running for President. It's kept our country together for a long, long time and it needs to stay.


        http://thepeoplescube.com/peoples-bl...es-t19083.html
        I actually did not appreciate the wisdom of the EC until a bit ago, and have recently got on board the EC wagon. It took some 'splaining" to get it thru my thick skull the reasons it was specified by the founding fathers. I used to think it was merely due to the fact of slow/poor transportation in the late 1700s American colonies and the transfer of voting results to a central location. Anyway, better late than never. and it proves I am not so hard headed that my mind can not change if facts are presented logically and the purpose is also logical. Others on this board may view me as an unmovable stubborn old fool who will never change his view, but this one I did.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by commanding View Post
          Others on this board may view me as an unmovable stubborn old fool who will never change his view, but this one I did.
          Yes you are good sir! But that's one of the many reasons I like you.

          I highly doubt those providing highly vocal praise for the electoral college would be doing so if Trump lost the electoral college and had a large popular vote lead. Maybe they would but I doubt it. If the roles were flipped we would see liberal rags like buzzfeed putting out articles defending the electoral college and blogs like discussing tyranny of the minority.

          The electoral college isn't going anywhere.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Jµµso View Post
            The electoral college is a disaster for a democracy.
            That's great, as GB said, the US is not a democracy. That's why we're still around.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Jµµso View Post
              The electoral college is a disaster for a democracy.
              Yeah better to let the most populated states decide who becomes POTUS for the remaining 95% of the country, right?

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              • #8
                I love the genius of the Electoral College. I am very glad it exists. Pure democracy is a trap, and the EC has helped protect us from that trap.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Devil Child View Post
                  I highly doubt those providing highly vocal praise for the electoral college would be doing so if Trump lost the electoral college and had a large popular vote lead.
                  I believe this sentence could conclude the whole topic :P

                  Originally posted by Vorph View Post

                  Yeah better to let the most populated states decide who becomes POTUS for the remaining 95% of the country, right?

                  The most populated states cannot possibly be 5%. The situation is the opposite. The electoral college allowed one group, Trump voters, to decide to become POTUS, despite the fact the other group is bigger. Which is what it is but it is nothing like you describe.

                  Your map really says nothing to me. It would be interesting to know how "big" these counties are adjusted to their size. Anyway, why do rural voters need to get favored? Dont you have devisions of competences to make sure local matters are dealt with locally already? So why assume rural voters know better what's good for the country as a whole? Your map assumes you've an issue with voting patterns of urbanized areas, why?

                  It's bad enough the winner-takes-all principle means so many votes, Democrat and Republican, are lost. I don't get why they dont just at least give every state exactly the same amount of electors based on exactly the same amount of people per elector.

                  Originally posted by riderboy View Post

                  That's great, as GB said, the US is not a democracy. That's why we're still around.
                  The two are not mutually exclusive. Democracy is not an alternative to a Republic. A Republic would be an alternative to a Monarchy, while both can or cannot have democracy. A democracy is an alternative to a dictatorship.

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                  • #10
                    Orange Wolf,

                    I assume you know the usa is a democratic republic. Not a democracy, not a monarchy.

                    One more time: the USA is a group of STATES united. We are NOT one big ass state.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Jµµso View Post
                      The electoral college is a disaster for a democracy.
                      Worked Perfectly since adopted


                      Whiners are always gonna whine though

                      Funny How the Democrats didnt bitch and moan when Obama got less Popular votes than Hitlery, yet won the nomination.
                      dems only whine because the salient fact they do not want to admit is this

                      Hillary sucked so badly instead of getting 10 million more votes than Trump she barely got 3 million. Now they are banzai charging the media with anything to deflect this from being accepted.

                      You should see some LW forums like DU and how even today they hope like children from some reason Trump will not be sworn in and somehow Hillary will be. Its cult like behaviour and hysteria

                      They already are demanding he be impeached for crimes they invent

                      They now blame him for every single act of violence, world wide.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Devil Child View Post


                        I highly doubt those providing highly vocal praise for the electoral college would be doing so if Trump lost the electoral college and had a large popular vote lead.
                        You do realize that the entire effort of a Presidential campaign is put into winning the Electoral College vote? No money, time, effort or resources are devoted to winning the popular vote. Hillary's "..large popular vote win." was in California where she received some 4 million more votes than Trump. A State, like New York, where Trump put almost no time, no money, no campaigning or resources. The hypothetical game of "who would win the popular vote" is just that. How many Republicans stayed home in California and New York and didn't vote because they were told the election was over months before it was even held?
                        The non-stop whining from the left is like a football team that loses because they didn't realize it was the number of touchdowns that counts, not the number of yards gained. FFS, do you honestly think the Democrats didn't know that? Anyone with even a passing acquaintance of the founding of the United States understands how the Electoral College came about, how it preserves the power of the States, and has worked brilliantly for the entire history of our country. The compromise at our Constitutional Convention that apportioned representation based not only on population, a system inherently unequal given the wide variance in the sizes and populations of States then and now, but also on the idea that each State held equal importance in the Union. Hence our Senate and House of Representatives. Remarkably elegant and effective solution to forming a Union of disparate States with widely varying self interests.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by commanding View Post
                          Orange Wolf,

                          I assume you know the usa is a democratic republic. Not a democracy, not a monarchy.

                          One more time: the USA is a group of STATES united. We are NOT one big ass state.
                          Geez, there seems to be a profound, and I do mean profound ignorance of just how our country was founded, why it was founded, and how brilliant and successful our form of government has been. Doesn't mean it's for everyone, go find something better and have at it. Oh, and the Founders thought of that too, you can change the Constitution if you want. From my source

                          The Electoral College is an extension of the Great Compromise. As James Madison put it in Federalist # 39, "The votes allotted to them are in a compound ratio, which considers them partly as distinct and coequal societies, partly as unequal members of the same society." This is why each state has a number of electors determined by a simple formula: # of representatives + # of senators = # of electors. This allows for a larger voice for the more populous states, but also prevents the less populous states from being rendered voiceless in choosing a president.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by commanding View Post

                            I assume you know the usa is a democratic republic. Not a democracy, not a monarchy.
                            Many countries are democratic republics (hell, my own country is one). You're just about the only guys on the planet who say that there's a difference between a democracy and a democratic republic, meaning that a democracy equals direct democracy, and republic doesn't.

                            But in reality it's different... that countries are republics doesn't mean that they don't employ direct democracy. France for example is a Republic (They even call themselves that), but their President is elected directly by the people.

                            In Germany (my country) the Chancellor is elected from the representatives of the Bundestag (Federal Diet) who in turn are elected by winning an election in their home county. So it is an electoral college, of sorts. The Chancellor is elected indirectly, not directly by the people. But there are additional safeguards built which try to ensure (doesn't work 100%, of course) that the percentage of the total number of seats a specific party holds in the Bundestag is equal to the percentage of the German people who voted for them.
                            Last edited by clancy688; 04-01-2017, 03:16 PM.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by clancy688 View Post

                              Many countries are democratic republics (hell, my own country is one). You're just about the only guys on the planet who say that there's a difference between a democracy and a democratic republic, meaning that a democracy equals direct democracy, and republic doesn't.

                              But in reality it's different... that countries are republics doesn't mean that they don't employ direct democracy. France for example is a Republic (They even call themselves that), but their President is elected directly by the people.

                              In Germany (my country) the Chancellor is elected from the representatives of the Bundestag (Federal Diet) who in turn are elected by winning an election in their home county. So it is an electoral college, of sorts. The Chancellor is elected indirectly, not directly by the people. But there are additional safeguards built which try to ensure (doesn't work 100%, of course) that the percentage of the total number of seats a specific party holds in the Bundestag is equal to the percentage of the German people who voted for them.
                              That's a lot of BS.

                              Some of the greatest countries in the world use an electoral college system for electing officials:

                              Kazakhstan
                              Myanmar
                              Vanuatu
                              Burundi
                              and even Madagascar

                              Need I go on?

                              -----------------

                              To be frank, we are unique and the country was founded in a very unique way. It's even in our name. The UNITED STATES of America. The point is that the country is basically comprised of smaller sovereign entities, all of whom have significant leeway in making their own legislation and handling their affairs very differently. I'd submit that there probably isn't any other country on the planet with as much diversity between different regions as the US between each of its 50 states.

                              The founders intended for the states to maintain their independence, hence each state effectively has its own election to choose a president. If it helps you, think of it as the EU Commission choosing the president of the EU Commission on behalf of the people. Something like that but completely different and not very similar at all.
                              Last edited by Jonathan; 04-01-2017, 03:45 PM.

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