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Gunman kills 12 at bar in Calif., police say

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  • #16
    California again, the state with the toughest gun laws in America. Shooter used an extended magazine, illegal to own, but yet he still had it...

    Horrible event, RIP to the dead.

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    • #17
      I wonder how much effect lead poisoning may actually has in all these incidents? I've read that even today millions of Americans are supplied with water that doesn't meets the maximum allowed ppb threshold for example. If you don't know what I'm up to. There are studies that directly relate crime to lead poisoning in the youth (lead-crime hypothesis) but that's not only related to lead in the water but also other means of absorption.

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      • #18
        Daily Star says -
        Witnesses say the man was armed with an uzi and unleashed a terrifying barrage of smoke bombs.
        The maniac has been identified as a 28-Year-Old veteran called Ian David Long.
        https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/wor...-bar-and-grill

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        • #19
          That's wrong, the police reported he had a .45 Glock semi-auto with an extended magazine which allowed him to fire more rounds than is legally permitted in California. He did have at least one smoke grenade though.

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          • #20
            Yup, pistol Glock 21 with extended mag.

            Apparently he was suffering from PTSD but he didn't seek help from the VA:

            The Marine veteran of Afghanistan blamed for a killing rampage that left 12 dead in a California bar never sought help from the Department of Veterans Affairs for post-traumatic stress or any other mental condition, VA Secretary Robert Wilkie said Friday.
            However, he said the shootings late Wednesday in Thousand Oaks, California, at the Borderline Bar & Grill suggest the department needs to do more outreach to troubled veterans.
            "The veteran in question was not in the VA system, so we don't know what his status was, what his mental condition was," Wilkie said following an address at the National Press Club on his first 100 days in office.
            https://www.military.com/daily-news/...box=1541803180

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Ivan le Fou View Post
              Yup, pistol Glock 21 with extended mag.

              Apparently he was suffering from PTSD but he didn't seek help from the VA:



              https://www.military.com/daily-news/...box=1541803180
              Very few do. I was part of that larger statistic, luckily I had good people around me. This dude is now another statistic along with his victims, could he have been helped? Sadly we'll never know, what we do known is there's a whole load of people hurting and that pain will probably never go.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Moose_Hates_You View Post

                Very few do. I was part of that larger statistic, luckily I had good people around me. This dude is now another statistic along with his victims, could he have been helped? Sadly we'll never know, what we do known is there's a whole load of people hurting and that pain will probably never go.
                Considering how flooded and overworked the VA system is, it "may" be understandable (to some extent) as to why he didn't go to the VA for help.

                But, as you said, he is now another statistics along with his victims.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Ivan le Fou View Post

                  Considering how flooded and overworked the VA system is, it "may" be understandable (to some extent) as to why he didn't go to the VA for help.

                  But, as you said, he is now another statistics along with his victims.
                  Some just cannot recognise they need help, the brain alters perception and that becomes the new reality. 'Normal' is a state of mind.
                  Last edited by Moose_Hates_You; 10-11-2018, 05:05 AM.

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                  • #24
                    I'm no psychologist, but when you decided to go full Max Payne on a crowd of innocent people, your mental health issues are secondary.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Fargin View Post
                      I'm no psychologist, but when you decided to go full Max Payne on a crowd of innocent people, your mental health issues are secondary.
                      How are they secondary when they're the reason for the atrocity? Poor guy needed help, and he didn't get it...

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Vorph View Post

                        How are they secondary when they're the reason for the atrocity? Poor guy needed help, and he didn't get it...
                        Is this really what's happened though? Some reports seem to suggest that the perp had been going after his girlfriend. Besides, just because someone has some form of mental illness doesn't mean that that's what's motivated them in that moment.

                        I agree with Fargin in one regard: Western societies have a weird tendency to care about murderers more than about the murdered. It's a well-known and well-researched phenomenon that this inspires more people to pull the trigger. In that spirit I'd say: Yes, it is secondary.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Vorph View Post
                          Poor guy
                          Sending thoughts and prayers to mass murderes now, are we? I haven't felt that sick to my stomach, since we turned Heather Heyer's killing into a fat shaming contest.

                          Lots of people struggle and hurt because of their mental health and still manage to not perpetrate mass murder. Me, I don't really care, if you were out of your mind or not in the moment of such a heinous crime. Crazy or not, in my opinion, when you kill a dozen of innocent people, you forfeit your freedom. The only thing someone's mental state should affect is, whether they serve their sentence in a normal prison or a maximum security facility for the criminal insane. If you're cognizant enough to suit up in tactical gear, arm yourself with an arsenal of weapons and ammo, you're not having a psychotic alternate reality episode. No, your primary mental condition is something quite different, I'd diagnose it as pure evil.

                          I think mental health is underreported, underprioritized, misunderstood and left untreated to worsen and therefor has a profound cost for the individuals, their surroundings and society as a whole. I welcome any attention to this major socioeconomic problem, I'm just a little tired of only hearing about mental health, when NRA needs a distraction every time someone shoots a bunch of innocent people/students/preschoolers.

                          Poor guy?

                          Fuck him.
                          Last edited by Fargin; 10-11-2018, 02:43 PM.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Fargin View Post
                            Sending thoughts and prayers to mass murderes now, are we? I haven't felt that sick to my stomach, since we turned Heather Heyer's killing into a fat shaming contest.

                            Lots of people struggle and hurt because of their mental health and still manage to not perpetrate mass murder. Me, I don't really care, if you were out of your mind or not in the moment of such a heinous crime. Crazy or not, in my opinion, when you kill a dozen of innocent people, you forfeit your freedom. The only thing someone's mental state should affect is, whether they serve their sentence in a normal prison or a maximum security facility for the criminal insane. If you're cognizant enough to suit up in tactical gear, arm yourself with an arsenal of weapons and ammo, you're not having a psychotic alternate reality episode. No, your primary mental condition is something quite different, I'd diagnose it as pure evil.

                            I think mental health is underreported, underprioritized, misunderstood and left untreated to worsen and therefor has a profound cost for the individuals, their surroundings and society as a whole. I welcome any attention to this major socioeconomic problem, I'm just a little tired of only hearing about mental health, when NRA needs a distraction every time someone shoots a bunch of innocent people/students/preschoolers.

                            Poor guy?

                            Fuck him.
                            Yeah it’s not like you can murder a dozen people through other methods like trucks, knifes, gasoline etc.

                            Fucked up people will murder dozens of people quite easily unless there’s a way to treat their fvcked up murder boners.

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                            • #29
                              You could distract them with a puzzle.

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Fargin View Post
                                Sending thoughts and prayers to mass murderes now, are we? I haven't felt that sick to my stomach, since we turned Heather Heyer's killing into a fat shaming contest.
                                No, you've misunderstood me... Btw Heather Heyer's mother said she died of a heart attack, that's why people were saying that. The coroner has since ruled her death was caused by blunt force trauma, so I was wrong about that.

                                Obviously.. fuck him for what he did, absolutely. I'm just saying that if mental health was treated properly and people weren't just palmed off with pills instead of actual treatment, then this veteran might have got help and this event could have been prevented. Time and time again, these incidents point towards a failure by the authorities to see the clear danger that some people present to the public. The NRA doesn't hold a candle up to big pharmaceutical giants when measuring human suffering... California also has the toughest gun laws of any US state, what more can be done?

                                Originally posted by muck View Post
                                Is this really what's happened though? Some reports seem to suggest that the perp had been going after his girlfriend.
                                I don't know anything about that, but the story is developing so I'll see what happens with that. The obsession with the killer over the victims makes good headlines, give some catchy name or something, makes for good viewing. All the tricks to make money, it's wrong obviously but that's what always happens...


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