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Soyuz launch failed, crew makes emergency landing

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Telmar View Post

    Potential airports that could welcome the shuttle in case of an emergency were airports with long runways: Dakar-Yoff in Senegal and Istres in France IIRC.
    I think even Zhukovsky in Moscow was a potential emergency airport, given its crazy long runway. Now that would have been something...

    By the way, in addition to the two ways of aborting an ongoing Soyuz launch that I already mentioned, it is technically possible to abort even after the payload fairing has been jettisoned and the Soyuz is "exposed", prior to orbital insertion - as was done in the 1970's, when they aborted at 135km altitude (well into space, but not yet in orbit) and separated the landing capsule for a suborbital, ballistic trajectory. They survived the landing, but were pretty beat up by the immense G forces, and ended up in the middle of nowhere in a snow storm so they had to wait for a whole day until the recovery team arrived.

    So, I guess we've now witnessed all three possible ways.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by moosefoot View Post

      I think even Zhukovsky in Moscow was a potential emergency airport, given its crazy long runway. Now that would have been something...

      By the way, in addition to the two ways of aborting an ongoing Soyuz launch that I already mentioned, it is technically possible to abort even after the payload fairing has been jettisoned and the Soyuz is "exposed", prior to orbital insertion - as was done in the 1970's, when they aborted at 135km altitude (well into space, but not yet in orbit) and separated the landing capsule for a suborbital, ballistic trajectory. They survived, but were pretty beat up by the immense G forces.

      So, I guess we've now witnessed all three possible ways.
      Well all good for the crew. It seems they took a few more G´s than they would have normally...which kind of confirms that going to space still is´nt open to just anyone in any physical shape. Guess the Russians will investigate the failure and it seems manned flights are on hold until this is understood.

      As you say, the shuttle could use other airports, but Dakar and Istres were usable airports in case of ejection during the launch phase. Further east would mean that the shuttle would already be at a much higher altitude and probably seperated from the tank already, and with a lot more options.

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      • #18
        Wow, that photo:
        https://twitter.com/Astro_Alex/statu...85043980472322

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Ivan le Fou View Post
          What i was trying to point out was: there was no way for the shuttle's crew to be "jettisoned" in case of a problem, was there?
          No.

          123456789

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          • #20
            Originally posted by moosefoot View Post
            what photo?

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Alcaldemb View Post

              No.

              123456789
              Technically you are right. There was no way to "jettison the crew". However the commander could jettison the boosters and the external tank to then, as stated above, either land at an alternate or blow the hatch and have the crew parachute.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by blackcatnursery View Post

                what photo?
                https://twitter.com/Astro_Alex/statu...589856257?s=09

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Kilgor View Post

                  If I recall correctly, the shuttle had a similar reliability rate, something like 98%.

                  Except when the shuttle blew up, it carried a far larger payload of people.

                  Putin needs to shitccan Rogozin and clean house. All these failures cant be blamed on sabotage and other soviet mentality nonsense
                  Well, they did discover a gaping drilled hole in the last Soyuz vehicle, the one docked to the ISS right now AFAIK.

                  Seems it is sabotage.

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                  • #24
                    Either voluntary sabotage or "mistake" on the production line?

                    Though I assume each parts and elements are heavily scrutinized before being assembled.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by flamming_python View Post

                      Well, they did discover a gaping drilled hole in the last Soyuz vehicle, the one docked to the ISS right now AFAIK.

                      Seems it is sabotage.
                      Hmmm. That hole could have been drilled by mistake. And an assembly can be poorly performed.

                      Sabotage is plausible...although the group of people who have something to gain by sending a defective Soyouz to the space station is not really clear to me..Internal sabotage because someone wants to have a few people there fired?.

                      Or a drop in internal veriications and audit of suppliers.


                      Originally posted by Ivan le Fou View Post
                      Either voluntary sabotage or "mistake" on the production line?

                      Though I assume each parts and elements are heavily scrutinized before being assembled.

                      They should be. But a mistake is always possible. This is a tech that requires no faults: the slightest one can be fatal: Apollo 13, the oyxgen tank had a fault because it had fallen on the ground and it was´nt reported...

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                      • #26
                        Sabotage or wrecking seems too Soviet a term to hide structural corruption, bad quality control and mismanagement.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Sniffit View Post

                          Technically you are right. There was no way to "jettison the crew". However the commander could jettison the boosters and the external tank to then, as stated above, either land at an alternate or blow the hatch and have the crew parachute.
                          Yes, but all are inherently riskier than the Soyuz failsafe. However, I was just addressing the question about jettisoning the crew.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Kilgor View Post
                            Sabotage or wrecking seems too Soviet a term to hide structural corruption, bad quality control and mismanagement.
                            Could it have been a micro meteorite strike?

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                            • #29
                              Impacts leaves very distinct marks that don't seem to fit the description of the hole.

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                              • #30
                                All parts of the rocket have been recovered for analysis now:
                                https://ria.ru/science/20181012/1530551281.html

                                Zak has written a pretty thorough article on what is known so far:
                                http://russianspaceweb.com/soyuz-ms-10.html

                                According to industry sources quoted on the Novosti Kosmonavtiki web forum, the pressurization valve on one of the strap-on boosters of the first stage failed to open as scheduled to push it away from the second stage during separation and it led to the collision of the empty booster with the firing second stage and damaging or pushing it off course.
                                Nowadays they have external cameras on the Soyuz, and while it is not likely that anything will be released publicly anytime soon I do hope to see it at some stage.

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