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Beware Chinese Trojan horses in the Balkans, EU warns

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  • #46
    The country that fucked you guys hard in WW2.

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    • #47
      Originally posted by Jake View Post
      The country that fucked you guys hard in WW2.
      That is a long list. Anything more specific?

      Comment


      • #48
        Originally posted by Paya View Post
        Well, the shit wasn't exactly self-inflicted.
        Maybe not everything but you can blame yourself for a good portion of it.

        We are a corrupt cleptocracy only barely more functional than the countries that ascended to the EU in 2007. Good enough?
        The first part is true and it's great to see that you're realising it but strange enough at least two countries that crept out the rubble that former Yugoslavia was seem to do rather well. Guess who they chose as partner?

        The alternative being what?
        That's a good question actually. I'd suggest to start with reforming yourself from inside as nobody really wants to do business and has trust into a country that's unwilling to admit its own mistakes and just blames everybody else and his dog for being in the position it actually is. One of your problems is you're focussing way to much on Russia but let me ask you what did you really got out of it so far?

        Ever taken the Trans-Siberian Railway? And what esteemed country might you be from?
        No, but I sometimes take an ICE. This should answer your question which country I'm from.

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        • #49
          Originally posted by Marsch View Post

          Maybe not everything but you can blame yourself for a good portion of it.

          That is true. Not the majority, though. Ten years of sanctions and the 1999 bombing just to top it off are responsible for the most of it. Not to mention two decades of idiots and thieves at the helm, each one hand-picked by the German Embassy in Belgrade.

          The first part is true and it's great to see that you're realising it but strange enough at least two countries that crept out the rubble that former Yugoslavia was seem to do rather well.

          Slovenia and...?


          Guess who they chose as partner?

          Slovenia is simply a good place to do business, their public sector is relatively small and uncumbered by nepotism and corruption, and so on. They built their country themselves, their partners have nothing to do with anything. Besides, I'm not really sure they scoff at Chinese investments.

          That's a good question actually. I'd suggest to start with reforming yourself from inside as nobody really wants to do business and has trust into a country that's unwilling to admit its own mistakes and just blames everybody else and his dog for being in the position it actually is.

          We've been "reforming ourselves from the inside" along the guidelines of the EU and the IMF for two decades. We have nothing to show for it. The economy was actually more competently led by Milosevic's goons, for Christ's sake.

          ne of your problems is you're focussing way to much on Russia but let me ask you what did you really got out of it so far?

          A squadron of MiGs and a revitalization of our railways and machines that run on them, as well as a guarantee that our territorial integrity will be respected in the UN SC. That last bit is currently in flux, as the latest German-appointed authoritarian at the helm seems more than happy to violate the Constitution, and partition his own country. On whose orders, I wonder?

          The better question would be what does the EU have to offer us?

          No, but I sometimes take an ICE. This should answer your question which country I'm from.
          OK. So, Marshall plan for Serbia, anyone? Gib?

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          • #50
            Someone needs to carpet-bomb Beijing.
            That'll teach them not to meddle in European affairs.

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            • #51
              Originally posted by Paya View Post
              [/SIZE][/FONT][/COLOR]
              That is true. Not the majority, though. Ten years of sanctions and the 1999 bombing just to top it off are responsible for the most of it. Not to mention two decades of idiots and thieves at the helm, each one hand-picked by the German Embassy in Belgrade.


              Slovenia and...?


              Slovenia is simply a good place to do business, their public sector is relatively small and uncumbered by nepotism and corruption, and so on. They built their country themselves, their partners have nothing to do with anything. Besides, I'm not really sure they scoff at Chinese investments.


              We've been "reforming ourselves from the inside" along the guidelines of the EU and the IMF for two decades. We have nothing to show for it. The economy was actually more competently led by Milosevic's goons, for Christ's sake.


              A squadron of MiGs and a revitalization of our railways and machines that run on them, as well as a guarantee that our territorial integrity will be respected in the UN SC. That last bit is currently in flux, as the latest German-appointed authoritarian at the helm seems more than happy to violate the Constitution, and partition his own country. On whose orders, I wonder?

              The better question would be what does the EU have to offer us?


              OK. So, Marshall plan for Serbia, anyone? Gib?

              https://www.railwaypro.com/wp/ebrd-r...bian-railways/



              Well seems that you also got some help from teh EU. The train onb teh pic looks similar to those regional we operate in Germany. Though I am no train expert.

              But I agree Serbia is free to choose. Just don't expect that teh EU offers soem etats to suck from the stuff the others don't give you because it doesn't benefit them.

              And Marsch gave you teh best argument look at Slovenia and Croatia. But you are free to jump omn teh China vbling bling train.



              Originally posted by Paya View Post

              The better question would be what does the EU have to offer us?

              [COLOR=#252C2F][FONT=Helvetica][SIZE=13px]
              OK. So, Marshall plan for Serbia, anyone? Gib?
              We have to offer a sensible approach, also considering the citizen and the general sustainbable development of the country. Not just gains for the corrupt cleptocratic caste who lets you ordinary citizens shoulder the inevitable fallouts and put the blame on random actors.


              There it is your Marshall plan:

              RF is also included China just jumped in in 2016

              I would also not rule out Russia as apartner. The EU surely is open to cooperation here. With Chin ait is a bit difficult as their intentions are quite clear.

              I also think that the EU recognizes teh Russian Serbian freindship.


              European Bank Bank for Reconstruction and development

              https://www.ebrd.com/home



              The Balkan redneck was a joke not menat offensively.

              I am from Bavaria I am a German redneck if it makes you happy


              PS: Some trains seem to be from Stadler the "Flirt" series...

              https://www.stadlerrail.com/de/


              The others that I thought look like German Regionals are from Russia.

              And as I thought, Metrovagonmash cooperated with Stadler in Russia.

              https://tsa.at/references/stadler_ra...dmu_for_russia
              Last edited by picanha; 31-08-2018, 02:39 AM.

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              • #52
                Originally posted by picanha View Post
                And Marsch gave you teh best argument look at Slovenia and Croatia. But you are free to jump omn teh China vbling bling train.[/SIZE][/FONT][/COLOR]
                Croatia? A cleptocracy just as bad or worse than Serbia. If they didn't have the most beautiful coastline in Europe, as well as the road infrastructure (the construction of which set them deeply into debt) to support it, they would have the living standard of Moldova.


                Not just gains for the corrupt cleptocratic caste who lets you ordinary citizens shoulder the inevitable fallouts and put the blame on random actors.
                That is exactly what the EU is doing. Lining the pockets of their puppets in power, allowing them to rule as they see fit, as long as they are fulfilling their demands (cooperativeness on Kosovo in Serbia's case). And those actors are anything but random.

                The EU surely is open to cooperation here.
                Not in the Balkans it isn't. Every time there's a hint about Russian investments or even when a Russian delegation is scheduled to visit, the EU starts it's Cold War drivel, easily translated as "hands off our colony".

                With Chin ait is a bit difficult as their intentions are quite clear.
                Again, what the Chinese do in a sovereign state that isn't, nor shall ever be a EU member, is none of the EU's business.

                I also think that the EU recognizes teh Russian Serbian freindship.
                https://twitter.com/carlbildt/status...140481/photo/1


                The Balkan redneck was a joke not menat offensively.
                You might have been joking, but that's exactly how the Europeans see us. Not that anyone abroad has the guts to say it to our face, mind you. We are quite burly, you see, though suprisingly chilled out, considering...

                I am from Bavaria I am a German redneck if it makes you happy
                Dude, I hail from Montenegro. My ancestors used to raid Ottoman border territories, kill their border guards, steal their sheep, and then proceed to fuck them. The sheep, not the guards. The guards, their heads would be impaled in front of the house. Never mind redneck, by that logic, I am a goddamned Papuan native.

                Comment


                • #53
                  Originally posted by Paya View Post
                  Croatia? A cleptocracy just as bad or worse than Serbia. If they didn't have the most beautiful coastline in Europe, as well as the road infrastructure (the construction of which set them deeply into debt) to support it, they would have the living standard of Moldova.
                  Don't think so. Theya are not perfect and a lot still to do but on the right path. It is all complicated and not explainable in ten minutes.

                  Also many arguments contra deeper European integration and in this case economic cooperation are not watertight, but they need thorough informations and general knowledgeabout how stuff works to see this.


                  Serbia is free to choose. But what is not gonna happen is that the EU accepts those already outfitted Trojan horses. Always talking bad about us but willingly taking all our moneys and free stuff?

                  You can go join Erdogan then.


                  And you stay outside, we will survive that. To whom you sell then? The Chinese products? Hmm?


                  I find teh recent developmenzts quite amusing..always thinking about putting "pressure" and talking strong towards the Wset, while in reality these forces are so much more dependent on the west and far mnoer engaged in the battle for hegemony then thes ones they accuse of doing so.

                  The Wests (And I include Asian nations herein) economic power, way of life is still so much larger and with a vastly greater potential than anything the usual Autocreats will have on offer.




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                  • #54
                    When I was deployed in Kosovo, I was destined to a little company-size Base in a Serbian enclave, in the Osojane valley.

                    All of us felt more sympathy and closeness with Serbs, and not with Albano-kosovars, And that sympathy, as I could feel, was mutual.


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                    • #55
                      If you can't even convince the Italians, how are you going to convince the Central and Eastern Europeans? https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...p-its-distance

                      Italy’s government is scrapping the previous administration’s efforts to limit Chinese investment in strategic sectors in favor of fostering relations with Beijing by volunteering for a role in China’s vast global infrastructureprogram.


                      The two countries are drawing up a memorandum of understanding to extend the massive Belt and Road spending program to Italy in sectors including railways, airlines, space and culture, Michele Geraci, undersecretary at the Ministry for Economic Development, said in an interview at his Rome office.


                      “We are very different from the previous government on China,” said Geraci, 51, a Sicilian professor of finance who spent a decade teaching in the financial hub of Shanghai. “We are trying not to ignore China as has been done in the past.”
                      Having someone who actually lived in China for a decade does help....

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                      • #56
                        Yeah the populists are onyl good for keeping the borders shut or shutting them.

                        This won't hold for long nor materialise into substantial "take overs" don't hope for it

                        China was laready lucky with what they got.

                        Italy can sell its secrets for a little bling bling if they want to. In the end it is more of a publicity campaign or brain storming of what led to Chinas GDP rise.
                        http://michelegeraci.com/en/



                        http://michelegeraci.com/en/2018/05/...radioradicale/

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