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Macedonia agrees to new name after 27-year dispute with Greece

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  • Macedonia agrees to new name after 27-year dispute with Greece

    It has taken more than 25 years, divided two nations and been cause for protests great and small, but on Tuesday Greece and Macedonia finally declared peace.
    After countless rounds of UN-mediated talks, the two Balkan neighbours announced that they had agreed to end the row over what to call the former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia.
    The tiny state will henceforth be known neither by its acronym, FYROM, nor simply as Macedonia but as the Republic of North Macedonia – a geographical qualifier that ends any fear in Athens of territorial ambition against the neighbouring Greek province of the same name.
    “After months of negotiation we have managed to reach a deal that will solve our longstanding difference over the name of our neighbour,” said the Greek prime minister, Alexis Tsipras. “They have agreed to rename their country the Republic of North Macedonia, a change that will apply in their international and bilateral relations and domestically.”
    Link https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...te-with-greece

    Given that it should be confirmed by both parlements, i won't hold my breathe too much but who knows, maybe that idiotic issue could be solved after all

  • #2
    Checks calendar. Huh, it's not April 1st?

    Well good on them. Looks like the sign of true diplomacy if neither side is 100% happy...

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    • #3
      Republic of North Macedonia...?

      ...

      Best Macedonia ? (lol /jk)

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      • #4
        Originally posted by TG0211 View Post
        Republic of North Macedonia...?

        ...

        Best Macedonia ? (lol /jk)
        Wait until they get some nukes

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        • #5
          Well it didn't took long

          https://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-a8397376.html

          President Gjorge Ivanov has said he will not sign a deal reached with Greece on changing his country's name.

          In Athens, resistance to the Macedonia deal has been growing. A source in Greece's main opposition party, New Democracy, said it planned to submit a motion of no-confidence in the government

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          • #6
            https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...e-change-deal/

            Greece’s prime minister hailed “a new page for the Balkans” on Friday after the Greek parliament narrowly approved a deal by which Macedonia, its northern neighbour, will change its name to North Macedonia.

            The ratification of the historic accord brings to an end a 28-year diplomatic dispute and opens the way for North Macedonia, a nation of two million people, to join NATO and the EU, in a move aimed at thwarting Russian influence in the region.

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            • #7
              Macedonia is located in historic Macedonian territory. I don't get whaþ Greeces' beef us. They're not currently using the name.

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              • #8
                Macedonia’s Name Change Deal Is a Triumph for the E.U., But Worrying for Democracy

                http://time.com/5508640/prespes-mace...zjqlXRcgsuduT8

                From Greek POV:

                - From the very start our northern neighbor had and still has in a large segment of their population nationalistic and irredentist tendencies. From falsifying history and claiming Alexander the Great, Aristotle as well as several Byzantine and Bulgarian heroes (seriously google it) to speaking about the lost homelands in the south, about Greek colonists and the "natural Macedonian borders" Several times, high level politicians have been photographed with maps showing a Greater Macedonia encompassing basically all of Greek Macedonia. Yes it's not realistic in 2019. But things can and do change and Greeks have a very strong ideology of not wanting to leave problems for their grandchildren or great-grandchildren.

                - There are 2.5 million Greeks who identify as Macedonians as a regional identity. Regional identities are very strong in Greece. When our neighbors claim they are the Macedonians (and they are actually less in population that Greek Macedonians) because of "self-determination" then they deny the self-determination of Greek Macedonians.

                - The agreement leaves a lot of leeway for the other party to interpret as they like. Also the agreement forces Greece to support FYROM's entry in the EU and NATO no matter what. The only thing we get is the name north Macedonia (which is already a step down for us) but no change in the language (which is Macedonian) or ethnicity (which stays Macedonia). They pay a lip service to the fact that they don't have anything to do with ancient Macedonia but of course they will ignore that in their political life and history they teach to their children.

                - Nobody asked for this. A prime minister that was elected for economical reasons and who never once explained in a debate his stance on the issue or his will to solve it during his 4 years in power "decided" (I mean NATO & Germany don't even hide that they initiated this) one day to negotiate then pass an agreement of major national importance without elections or referendum. Said prime minister right now polls around 20% of votes and only managed to pass the vote by 153 out of 300 in the parliament by plundering small parties and bribing 6 MPs that know that in the next elections they would not be elected again in their original parties so they jumped ship. Meanwhile in all polls from 65% to 80% of Greeks are against this deal and there were massive rallies against it. This is basically yet another rape of the illusion that we have a democratic state.

                - Lastly and most irritatingly the "civilised" world cheers for this affront against democracy (funny enough the same happened in FYROM) when they are howling against Brexit for winning narrowly in the referendum. Meanwhile we got no referendum and the one in FYROM was a sham that most of the people boycotted.

                So yeah....


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                • #9
                  Just to balance your words Vorian
                  Yes there is a portion of northern macedonians that are nationalists
                  Not more and not less than what you can find in Greece. Let s face it, greeks are not pure doves on that matter and others. But well it s Balkans

                  There were indeed maps pushed by some idiots about Grear Macedonia... as you had (and still can find) Great Greece, Great Albania or Grear Bulgaria etc
                  What it looks like and even if i agree with the importance of regional identity is that your country bullied the weakest of its neighbour. You didnt dared to touch Albania nor Bulgaria nor Turkey

                  Northern Macedonia agreed all what you asked (asks that were more in line to ultimatums)
                  Airport was renamed, statues were removed, country name is changed.
                  And more important nationalist idiots were removed from power.
                  At one moment either you want to advance in relationships or you want to stand in your bully behaviour
                  Because, refusing by sheer tantrum the access to NATO and EU to your neighbour had sime strategical effects you forgot to mention : your archennemy, Turkey set a foot on your northern border politicaly and economicaly because of your country past stubborness to discuss the issue

                  To sum it up your country made a hill from a mole nest. Frankly whoever believes that a country like NM can threaten Greece except a few guys that are afraid that previously greek commies expelled in 49 and settled accross the border come back to claim their heritage lands seized by Greek gov and private entities back then. That pretty all about a threat and largely overbloated on your side

                  This issue was ridiculous from the beginning
                  Being settled may allow to advance further in the stabilization of the regions. Even if it costs scratched prides from nationalists on both sides of the border

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                  • #10
                    Yes there is a portion of northern macedonians that are nationalists
                    Not more and not less than what you can find in Greece.
                    Main nationalist party VMRO was government for 8 years. Greek equivalents including Golden Dawn don't get more than 10% all together in our parliament.

                    The airport, statues etc. will just resume when they get power again and that will probably happen considering the Zaef passed this in the Skopje parliament with an even worse and anti-democratic manner than Tsipras in Greece.

                    So to sum up, we got nothing. Name is N. Macedonia but nobody really calls it that way in their country or abroad, ethnicity is Macedonian and offending some 2.5 million Greeks, language is Macedonian (slavic but nobody really remembers) and in return we will push them through the backdoor in NATO. Then they will simply go back on their word start all the shenanigans all over again and we will do what? Evict them from NATO? Yeah right, the issue is "ridiculous" as you say.

                    And of course, Turkey will gain yet another NATO ally who is intertwined with them (Zaef's first foreign visit was in Turkey after the agreement) alongside Albania. Actually Bulgaria is our only friend in the area apart from Serbia. Weird times eh?

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Vorian View Post

                      Main nationalist party VMRO was government for 8 years. Greek equivalents including Golden Dawn don't get more than 10% all together in our parliament.

                      The airport, statues etc. will just resume when they get power again and that will probably happen considering the Zaef passed this in the Skopje parliament with an even worse and anti-democratic manner than Tsipras in Greece.

                      So to sum up, we got nothing. Name is N. Macedonia but nobody really calls it that way in their country or abroad, ethnicity is Macedonian and offending some 2.5 million Greeks, language is Macedonian (slavic but nobody really remembers) and in return we will push them through the backdoor in NATO. Then they will simply go back on their word start all the shenanigans all over again and we will do what? Evict them from NATO? Yeah right, the issue is "ridiculous" as you say.

                      And of course, Turkey will gain yet another NATO ally who is intertwined with them (Zaef's first foreign visit was in Turkey after the agreement) alongside Albania. Actually Bulgaria is our only friend in the area apart from Serbia. Weird times eh?
                      As much as i highly dislike VMRO it is nowhere alike Golden Dawn but closer to the right part of your New Democracy which parties you have PMs and ministers

                      For the rest, it is all conjecture given that VMRO is burried deep in scandalous deeds including corruption and political spying

                      And Bulgaria your friends as long as great bulgaria nostalgics (envious of the second Balkan wars lost territories) dont get more power. Weird indeed you know like me how alliances can change quiickly in the Balkans

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                      • #12
                        I never liked that salad anyway...

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                        • #13
                          Greeks get offended too easily sometimes.

                          Remember when they wanted Lordi kicked put of Eurovision for being 'satanic'. (Their bloody song was "The devil is a loser".)

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