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Trump, Kim Jong Un sign agreement after historic summit.

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  • #46
    Originally posted by riderboy View Post

    So you're with Jake Tapper. Obama could have done it but just didn't want to? Hahahahaha!!! Didn't stop Obama from meeting with Cuban or Venezuelan dictators, or promising Putin in an open mike remark that he would be "more flexible" with Russia after the 2012 election. Nor has Trump lifted sanctions on the Norks, instead, they were ratcheted up with the help of the Chicoms to squeeze Rocketman into an even smaller corner. Obama like to talk tough, stick his nose up in the air and jut his jaw like Mussolini, but the reality was he was Pussolini. The Trump administration got tougher sanctions on North Korea by a 15-0 vote, and the US didn't pay out $150 billion dollars or fly planeloads of cash to get political prisoners released.



    http://thehill.com/homenews/administ...st-north-korea
    That's worse. Not being able to is one thing, not wanting to is much worse. That a elected leader didn't want to sit down with and aggressor and de-escalate. Well, kinda does make you question the NPP? Trump has rookie numbers when it comes to Warheads on Foreheads, but may have just calmed a fucking nation down.

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    • #47
      Globe and Mail's international affairs columnist Doug Saunders weighs in:

      "It isn’t comprehensive. It’s barely a document. But the five-paragraph statement signed in Singapore Tuesday by Donald Trump and Kim Jong-un was enough for the U.S. President to declare it “a pretty comprehensive document,” and for he and his North Korean counterpart to return home victorious.
      It is an opening statement of good faith – an agreement to have talks that might lead to an agreement. In substance and language, it differs little from similar preliminary undertakings signed by North Korea and the United States (and sometimes other countries) in 1993, 1999, 2000, 2004 and 2012, under former presidents Bill Clinton, George W. Bush and Barack Obama.
      [...]

      Bruce Klingner, a conservative former CIA director for the Koreas and adviser to previous North Korean talks, was dismissive: “This is very disappointing,” he declared on Tuesday. “Each of the four main points was in previous documents with North Korea, some in a stronger, more encompassing way.”
      Mr. Trump, characteristically, brushed off those criticisms. In what may be his most prescient statement, he addressed the likelihood of the actual talks failing: “I may stand before you in six months and say, ‘Hey, I was wrong,’” he told reporters, and then smiled: “I don’t know that I’ll ever admit that, but I’ll find some kind of an excuse.” That, too, is what three presidents before him have done."

      https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opin...for-the-world/

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      • #48
        This isn't a well-thought-out diplomacy. Unilateral announcement of cessation of joint military exercises without informing allies, and using the North Korean language in describing these exercises as being "provocative?" If your country has been a faithful ally of the US and your soldiers have bled with the American soldiers in wars, then Trump pokes you in the eye. If your country has killed American soldiers and imprisoned American civilians, then Trump thinks he's got a special relationship with you. History does not start with Trump winning the election, and the country and the world will certainly bear the consequences of his international diplomacy long after he leaves White House.

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        • #49

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          • #50
            Originally posted by riderboy View Post

            yes 4chan must be fun every time trump gets something even a little bit right. This is a start, that's all. While it's unfair to call it a wasted effort as some leftwing pundits have - any dialogue is better than confrontation - it will not be the end of the region's problems with North Korea, and no actual 'deal' has been inked, so let's not get over excited.

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            • #51
              Originally posted by epc View Post
              This isn't a well-thought-out diplomacy. Unilateral announcement of cessation of joint military exercises without informing allies, and using the North Korean language in describing these exercises as being "provocative?" If your country has been a faithful ally of the US and your soldiers have bled with the American soldiers in wars, then Trump pokes you in the eye. If your country has killed American soldiers and imprisoned American civilians, then Trump thinks he's got a special relationship with you. History does not start with Trump winning the election, and the country and the world will certainly bear the consequences of his international diplomacy long after he leaves White House.
              Sometimes you've got to break the ice. Didn't reagan meet Gorbachev in Reykjavik in 1986 at the height of the Cold War?

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              • #52
                Main differences (as I see it) from 1993, 1999 et. Al.

                1: Kim Jung Un in charge of North Korea. Same family, probably the same motivations but nevertheless a different person from his father and grandfather. Not even born when the Koreas were at war;

                2: Sanction support from China. Maybe not perfect but a lot better than previous attempts;

                3: North Korean nukes. Which makes an attack on them risky. Not impossible but certainly a much bigger risk than previously.

                The biggest risk for Trump is that it all goes south and he loses some face.

                But for the North Koreans one of the biggest risks is that they get all (or at least most) that they want. They've had four or five generations of poverty imposed upon them due to "the risk from the US and their puppet regime". Take away the rational for that (whether via some kind of US security guarantee or the withdrawal of US forces) and now they have to pony up with a better level of living standards and fast.

                So whatever is agreed, I am pretty sure there is going to be a lot of $$$$ involved. Hell maybe the US buys the North Korean nuclear arsenal from them for $500 billion.

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                • #53
                  Where on Earth Norks took weapon-grade uranium?

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                  • #54
                    Originally posted by budgie View Post
                    ..... This is a start, that's all. While it's unfair to call it a wasted effort as some leftwing pundits have - any dialogue is better than confrontation - it will not be the end of the region's problems with North Korea, and no actual 'deal' has been inked, so let's not get over excited.
                    I agree with you wholeheartedly. It's a start, and I hope Mr Trump is learning quickly.

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                    • #55
                      Originally posted by Euroamerican View Post

                      I agree with you wholeheartedly. It's a start, and I hope Mr Trump is learning quickly.

                      Dialogue! We need dialogue! The battle cry of the left, Trump engages in meaningful dialogue with the most brutal dictator on the planet, who has nukes, and they have a total meltdown. Go figure.

                      Kim Jong Un accepts Trump's invitation to Washington: report
                      http://thehill.com/policy/internatio...-to-washington

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                      • #56
                        Originally posted by TheKiwi View Post
                        Main differences (as I see it) from 1993, 1999 et. Al.

                        1: Kim Jung Un in charge of North Korea. Same family, probably the same motivations but nevertheless a different person from his father and grandfather. Not even born when the Koreas were at war;

                        2: Sanction support from China. Maybe not perfect but a lot better than previous attempts;

                        3: North Korean nukes. Which makes an attack on them risky. Not impossible but certainly a much bigger risk than previously.

                        The biggest risk for Trump is that it all goes south and he loses some face.

                        But for the North Koreans one of the biggest risks is that they get all (or at least most) that they want. They've had four or five generations of poverty imposed upon them due to "the risk from the US and their puppet regime". Take away the rational for that (whether via some kind of US security guarantee or the withdrawal of US forces) and now they have to pony up with a better level of living standards and fast.

                        So whatever is agreed, I am pretty sure there is going to be a lot of $$$$ involved. Hell maybe the US buys the North Korean nuclear arsenal from them for $500 billion.
                        For the most part North Korea cannot be trusted. It won't be Trump's fault, but he should be more circumspect about claiming 'victory' or exaggerated claims of denuclearization. Long way to go yet and it will be a bumpy road.

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                        • #57
                          Originally posted by epc View Post
                          This isn't a well-thought-out diplomacy. Unilateral announcement of cessation of joint military exercises without informing allies, and using the North Korean language in describing these exercises as being "provocative?" If your country has been a faithful ally of the US and your soldiers have bled with the American soldiers in wars, then Trump pokes you in the eye. If your country has killed American soldiers and imprisoned American civilians, then Trump thinks he's got a special relationship with you. History does not start with Trump winning the election, and the country and the world will certainly bear the consequences of his international diplomacy long after he leaves White House.
                          How do you know it's not well thought out? Obamacare was not well thought out, this seems to be very well thought out. Trump got the Chinese, South Koreans and Japanese and the UN on board, strengthened sanctions, got three American political prisoners released (without paying a dime in ransom unlike Obama) the alleged destruction of a nuclear test site and this historic meeting with a signed agreement to move forward. Jesus, what more of a start could you ask for?

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                          • #58
                            Originally posted by budgie View Post

                            For the most part North Korea cannot be trusted. It won't be Trump's fault, but he should be more circumspect about claiming 'victory' or exaggerated claims of denuclearization. Long way to go yet and it will be a bumpy road.


                            If North Korea does what North Korea has done in the past, the blame for the disaster will most definitely be thrown in Trump's face, and deservedly so.

                            That said, if North Korea does in fact step on the path ofdenuclearization and the North Korean market is opened for exploitation with a turna around in relations, then Trump has pulled a Nixon, and should be given due credit.

                            Trump without a doubt owns this negotiation.

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                            • #59
                              Originally posted by anon45 View Post



                              If North Korea does what North Korea has done in the past, the blame for the disaster will most definitely be thrown in Trump's face, and deservedly so.

                              That said, if North Korea does in fact step on the path ofdenuclearization and the North Korean market is opened for exploitation with a turna around in relations, then Trump has pulled a Nixon, and should be given due credit.

                              Trump without a doubt owns this negotiation.
                              Prior to this Freudian slip, I imagined that the US stood for free and fair trade, egalitarianism, democracy, freedom, et al.....


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                              • #60
                                Originally posted by Royal View Post

                                What exactly has Trump achieved except giving Kim the kudos of a one-on-one with POTUS - something that none of Trump's predecessors Dem or GOP did? He certainly hasn't got lucky, this has all sorts of scope to blow up in his face.

                                If we actually see the Nork's nukes being de-commissioned then I will certainly give him the credit for it, but until I see something concrete, its Kim 3, Trump 0.
                                I find it almost surreal that after 2 years of the US left claiming trump was literally hitler and going to start ww3 now he is criticized for a try at being a peacemaker. Where is this presidential policy of Never meeting the leader of North Korea written? Nixon met Mao FFS, certainly a greater threat than the kims ever were?

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