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Trump, Kim Jong Un sign agreement after historic summit.

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  • #31
    I can see why Moose would hate you.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by muck View Post
      Nothing will come of this. I'm not a Trump hater, it's just how I feel. Kim's family has run North Korea like private property for over seventy years, displaying a sense of ownership over land and people worse than every feudal lord's of old. Why would he surrender that kind of power? None ever have. And why would the apparatus allow it to happen? Regular crackdowns on top ranking Norks have proven Kim's reign is not undisputed. He needs a foe to stay in power; without a foe to "defend" his people against, what's a dictator needed for?
      You might be right, I never thought Lech Walęsa would go far at the Gdansk shipyards either, or the mighty Soviet Union fold like a cheap lawn chair. So what's the alternative?

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      • #33
        Originally posted by muck View Post
        I can see why Moose would hate you.

        Indeed. And you should also know how much I don't give a fuck.

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        • #34
          Originally posted by riderboy View Post

          You might be right, I never thought Lech Walęsa would go far at the Gdansk shipyards either, or the mighty Soviet Union fold like a cheap lawn chair. So what's the alternative?

          If he pulls it off, fair play. At least he was willing to sit across the table from the man and have a dialogue. And that's how change starts.

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          • #35
            Originally posted by riderboy View Post

            What exactly has he done? So an historic summit meeting with a signed agreement with one of the most dangerous, rogue regimes on the planet is NOT an achievement?
            Given the agreement has fuck all in it of substance, yes it is no achievement. Its a placeholder. We'll see what its holding for.

            Originally posted by riderboy View Post

            Christ, one has to start somewhere. I agree there is a lot to prove here
            Good to see you recognize that.


            Originally posted by riderboy View Post
            but the left was howling about how a dangerously naive and incompetent Trump was going to get us into a nuclear war. Now they're pissed off because this same "dangerous incompetent" legitimized a tyrant by actually meeting with him? So, Kim 3 Trump 0, Rocketman is perceived as "the winner" who duped this idiot Trump?
            Why are you surprised? The ideologue right howled all the way through when it came to Iran or Cuba. The ideologue left will do so for North Korea.


            Originally posted by riderboy View Post
            Good Lord man, we may have a chance to avoid a nuclear confrontation peacefully with one of the most unstable regimes in the world.
            Did this logic work for the Republicans on Iran?


            Originally posted by riderboy View Post
            The world should be thankful and happy that now we have this unique opportunity and I would say that is a win/win for us all. Sad so many cannot or will not see that.
            You already mentioned that we have a ways to go, so you should recognize why its not time to celebrate yet.

            The devil is in the details, and they haven't been hashed out yet. No reason to be happy and certainly not thankful for a photo op. We've been at this same point before plenty of times. Yes the window dressing is a bit different, but a photo op and handshake session it essentially still is, and a plan it is not.

            Supposedly another meeting to detail the plan will happen in a weeks time or so.

            Still pessimistic that Kim will actually give up nukes, and unilaterally halting exercises with South Korea for the duration of the negotiations leaves a bad taste. South Korea was not given a heads up beforehand.

            :edit: seems I was wrong with regards to the US military

            http://thehill.com/policy/defense/39...rean-war-games

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            • #36
              Originally posted by Linedoggie View Post
              Last I saw making your mom moan like a 1970 Chevelle SS

              So certain people can make personal attacks and talk about someone's mother.

              What sexual insults can I make about Line Doggies wife ?



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              • #37
                WATCH: FOX NEWS HATED OBAMA TALKING TO DICTATORS BUT LOVES TRUMP MEETING WITH NORTH KOREA'S KIM JONG UN

                http://www.newsweek.com/fox-news-vid...h-korea-848618

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by maxima10 View Post
                  WATCH: FOX NEWS HATED OBAMA TALKING TO DICTATORS BUT LOVES TRUMP MEETING WITH NORTH KOREA'S KIM JONG UN

                  http://www.newsweek.com/fox-news-vid...h-korea-848618

                  Yeah sad hypocrisy. It might have been Obama but he was pilloried for even suggesting it and backed down like a sissy.

                  But anyway let's move forward and give the Devil his due. It was a good idea of trump to attempt this. Not talking is a stupid way to resolve differences.

                  Now I don't think much will immediately come of it: the two most unreasonable men on the planet, neither of whom has ever stuck to a deal can hardly be expected to forge a lasting peace. But at least trump has got the ball rolling. If this means more dialogue in future between the US and NK, under successive leaders, then at least that's one good trump legacy.

                  But, for Riderboy, this is not 'brilliant' diplomacy. It's bold. Obama suggested it and got shot down and Trump has faced very little domestic opposition to this (nor should he have and nor should Obama). It's a start, and was done as much out of his need to distract, to upset the apple cart, to upstage and because he clearly likes the company of dictators more than democratic allies. 'Brilliant' is a massive exaggeration.
                  Last edited by budgie; 12-06-2018, 04:11 PM.

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                  • #39
                    I know some people just hate Trump because he is Trump, But HEY!!! Give the man credit where it is due. When we talk Peace for Him, people mock of him but all OKAY when Obama gets. This submit tho it is symbolic in nature but it is one small step in the right direction ( I sincerely hope)

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by budgie View Post


                      Yeah sad hypocrisy. It might have been Obama but he was pilloried for even suggesting it and backed down like a sissy.
                      ....
                      Trump has (yet) to have his Libya and/or Syrian moment to suggest that he's as incompetent as Obama was at the whole international diplomacy thing (although the G7 stuff and other events suggest he's moving in that direction).

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by maxima10 View Post
                        WATCH: FOX NEWS HATED OBAMA TALKING TO DICTATORS BUT LOVES TRUMP MEETING WITH NORTH KOREA'S KIM JONG UN

                        http://www.newsweek.com/fox-news-vid...h-korea-848618

                        Just like liberal medias applauded OBama and other Democrat leaders on anti-immigration decisions.
                        But blasted Trump when he did the exact same thing.

                        Another thing "Fox news blasted Obama when he suggested he would". Trump actually did something: he did meet, did sign and did reach a deal for the denuclearization of NK.

                        Which is faaaaaaaar more than anything Obama did. Well... Obama did do things. Red line things. Lots of them actually.
                        Last edited by Ivan le Fou; 12-06-2018, 09:59 PM.

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by budgie View Post



                          But, for Riderboy, this is not 'brilliant' diplomacy. It's bold. Obama suggested it and got shot down and Trump has faced very little domestic opposition to this (nor should he have and nor should Obama). It's a start, and was done as much out of his need to distract, to upset the apple cart, to upstage and because he clearly likes the company of dictators more than democratic allies. 'Brilliant' is a massive exaggeration.
                          So you're with Jake Tapper. Obama could have done it but just didn't want to? Hahahahaha!!! Didn't stop Obama from meeting with Cuban or Venezuelan dictators, or promising Putin in an open mike remark that he would be "more flexible" with Russia after the 2012 election. Nor has Trump lifted sanctions on the Norks, instead, they were ratcheted up with the help of the Chicoms to squeeze Rocketman into an even smaller corner. Obama like to talk tough, stick his nose up in the air and jut his jaw like Mussolini, but the reality was he was Pussolini. The Trump administration got tougher sanctions on North Korea by a 15-0 vote, and the US didn't pay out $150 billion dollars or fly planeloads of cash to get political prisoners released.

                          Trump: China 'upping the sanctions against' North Korea
                          http://thehill.com/homenews/administ...st-north-korea

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                          • #43
                            And I seem to remember Mr Obama backing down on supporting anti-regime people in Iran, thus helping the rulers of Iran, in his first few years in office. Or, there is that little thing of helping to stir up so many Arab Springs south of the Med. Thanks very much for that. I'm sure Europe is so happy now with the somewhat-related refugee floods coming north.

                            Mr Obama got the darn Nobel Peace Prize for merely showing up, but the media goes so far to criticize Mr Trump that they end up looking like they re hugging the actual opposition to the US and the rest of the western allies.

                            Do I think this summit in Singapore is some sort of great event? Well, no... not really. But on the other hand, diplomacy is a lot about talking rather than fighting. Isn't it better to get real about talking and listening, rather than to stay blustery back behind our walls and feed latent jingoism? To that extent, the effort to have and complete the summit successfully is a success.

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Euroamerican View Post
                              And I seem to remember Mr Obama backing down on supporting anti-regime people in Iran, thus helping the rulers of Iran, in his first few years in office. Or, there is that little thing of helping to stir up so many Arab Springs south of the Med. Thanks very much for that. I'm sure Europe is so happy now with the somewhat-related refugee floods coming north.

                              Mr Obama got the darn Nobel Peace Prize for merely showing up, but the media goes so far to criticize Mr Trump that they end up looking like they re hugging the actual opposition to the US and the rest of the western allies.

                              Do I think this summit in Singapore is some sort of great event? Well, no... not really. But on the other hand, diplomacy is a lot about talking rather than fighting. Isn't it better to get real about talking and listening, rather than to stay blustery back behind our walls and feed latent jingoism? To that extent, the effort to have and complete the summit successfully is a success.
                              I agree. It was a matter of principle that no US president would meet the leader of a nation that thechnically is still at war with the USA. But nothing moves forward when people don´t talk, you are right. I don´trust the Kim´s and I think they will cheat once again...but who knows. BTW that´s what makes the Trump stance on Iran completely impossible to understand given that Iran´s program was being monitored and that Iran was respecting its promises while the NORKS were doing none of that...but because of their nuclear capability they get a pass. It´s a real motivation for everyone to pass the threshold and get leeway with everyone.

                              However, I think the magician here is the South Korean president. He took over after "little rocket man" and picked up the pieces after the Bolton blunder.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Ivan le Fou View Post


                                Just like liberal medias applauded OBama and other Democrat leaders on anti-immigration decisions.
                                But blasted Trump when he did the exact same thing.

                                Another thing "Fox news blasted Obama when he suggested he would". Trump actually did something: he did meet, did sign and did reach a deal for the denuclearization of NK.

                                Which is faaaaaaaar more than anything Obama did. Well... Obama did do things. Red line things. Lots of them actually.
                                Yeah. Red lines, lines in the sand. "There will be costs" if Russia invades the Ukraine, "Cut it out" Vladimir Putin!! Instead of the Nobel Peace Prize, he should have been awarded the Gold Medal for winning the Olympic Political Incompetence Decathalon. He did it all badly beautifully.

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