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Km Jong Un and Donald Trump to meet at the DMZ

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Ivan le Fou View Post
    Postponing the wargames would have been smart though...

    And then have them resumed depending on the result of the talks.
    As a simple gesture, I disagree, and i'm not even sure if exercises can be started and stopped on a whim like that without extensive rescheduling.

    At the very least I feel the postponing of further scheduled exercises are a chip to be played for further concessions instead of a chip to take away on failure. The chip to take away is the talks themselves, as their success is necessary for sanctions relief for the Kim regime, and he won't find heads of state in the US and South Korea more willing to discuss it than those present for a while.

    Anyways I like the white house statement here. It's essentially 'deal with it'.


    https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/whit...ry?id=55205015

    Comment


    • #17
      Somebody tells Twumpee that threats won't work on NK regime ....

      https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...ong-un-gaddafi Donald Trump's warning to Kim Jong-un: make a deal or suffer same fate as Gaddafi

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by anon45 View Post

        As a simple gesture, I disagree, and i'm not even sure if exercises can be started and stopped on a whim like that without extensive rescheduling.

        At the very least I feel the postponing of further scheduled exercises are a chip to be played for further concessions instead of a chip to take away on failure. The chip to take away is the talks themselves, as their success is necessary for sanctions relief for the Kim regime, and he won't find heads of state in the US and South Korea more willing to discuss it than those present for a while.

        Anyways I like the white house statement here. It's essentially 'deal with it'.


        https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/whit...ry?id=55205015
        It is not really "on a whim".

        Unless you consider the meeting of the US president with the leader of NK about peace talks and denuclearization (thus leading to a de-escalade in violence), something nobody managed to pull out before, a whim...

        And unless, of course, you consider schedules to be more important than establishing the basis for a possible long lasting peace in the region. Geopolitics does not work, and should not, work like a bureaucratic/administrative institution.

        As for concession,s what are the concession that have been made by anybody to NK?
        Didn't NK offered to publicly dismantle its nuclear installations without any condition?


        Anyway, I am surprised by people actually rejoicing over the possible failure of such talks, as long as it can be blamed on Trump and or affect his presidency. "hahaha! look! he failed to make peace with NK! what an incompetent loser! fat stupid drumpf!"

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by Ivan le Fou View Post


          Anyway, I am surprised by people actually rejoicing over the possible failure of such talks, as long as it can be blamed on Trump and or affect his presidency. "hahaha! look! he failed to make peace with NK! what an incompetent loser! fat stupid drumpf!"

          Yeah, that idiot Drumpf!! He defeated Hillary, is obliterating Obama's "legacy", set the economy of fire, created jobs, and might actually make this Nork thing work. Among other things. All the leftist press and never Trumpers can do is falsify stories, make shit up and hope Mueller finds "something" on Trump although two solid years into it we still have no clue what Mueller is investigating. As I said before, perhaps his biggest accomplishment is revealing just exactly what kind of liars, haters, sore losers and intolerant bigots liberals are in this country. Seriously, I'd have to question the sanity of anyone voting for a Democrat at the national level anymore.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Mordoror View Post
            Somebody tells Twumpee that threats won't work on NK regime ....

            https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...ong-un-gaddafi Donald Trump's warning to Kim Jong-un: make a deal or suffer same fate as Gaddafi
            I really hope the MSM is reporting this wrong. Did he really misinterpret Bolton's statement on North Korea and Libya, or was he even referencing Bolton. FFS

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by Rapier55 View Post

              I really hope the MSM is reporting this wrong. Did he really misinterpret Bolton's statement on North Korea and Libya, or was he even referencing Bolton. FFS
              Well just offhand I'd say that Twumpee has done a shitload better at dealing with North Korea than any recent President I can think of. When was the last time Kim Jong-Un walked across the DMZ to shake hands with the South Korean President, or set up a summit with a US President with. a pledge to give up nukes and open his country to inspectors?

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by Ivan le Fou View Post

                It is not really "on a whim".

                Unless you consider the meeting of the US president with the leader of NK about peace talks and denuclearization (thus leading to a de-escalade in violence), something nobody managed to pull out before, a whim...
                You're missing my point and arguing semantics.


                I don't hold much faith that a long lasting peace on the peninsula is possible, but if it was it wouldn't rest on postponement of the scheduled and well known military exercises that kim jong un has stated previously he is ok with.

                These are about leverage and we shouldn't give him it.

                He will tolerate them and go to the summit, or he won't. If he won't, he wasn't ever really serious.


                Originally posted by Ivan le Fou View Post
                As for concession,s what are the concession that have been made by anybody to NK?
                Didn't NK offered to publicly dismantle its nuclear installations without any condition?
                The US and SK had already postponed exercises earlier in deference to Kim during the winter Olympics.

                https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.669e13e31031

                Also an 'offer' or 'pledge' isn't the same as doing so. Just like hand shake photo op isn't the same as a peace treaty. You can make offers without intending to follow through.

                Once the sites have actually been dismantled, and once a peace treaty has actually been signed and verification procedures to assure denuclearization are in place is when I'll believe it might be real. No point being thrice burned.

                He's already back to berating the SK govt as 'incompetent fools' though.

                edit: https://www.vox.com/2018/5/18/173684...outh-korea-b52

                And unfortunately it looks like South Korea caved a bit. I doubt Kim will appreciate it. Not good to project desperation before a summit.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Told you so (yes even to Trumpistas ...) that He (<- you know who i am talking about) will screw it up because of inconstancy and stupid tweets/declarations

                  https://www.msnbc.com/stephanie-ruhl...-1240970819687
                  Trump cancels meeting with North Korea, citing 'tremendous anger and open hostility'

                  https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/p...-un/640268002/


                  But everything is OK, Trump is good and is best POTUS evahhh !!

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Mordoror View Post
                    Told you so (yes even to Trumpistas ...) that He (<- you know who i am talking about) will screw it up because of inconstancy and stupid tweets/declarations

                    https://www.msnbc.com/stephanie-ruhl...-1240970819687
                    Trump cancels meeting with North Korea, citing 'tremendous anger and open hostility'

                    https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/p...-un/640268002/


                    But everything is OK, Trump is good and is best POTUS evahhh !!
                    Atleast it didn't with cash being sent to NK unlike the Obombus administration sending cash to Iran.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Mordoror View Post
                      Told you so (yes even to Trumpistas ...) that He (<- you know who i am talking about) will screw it up because of inconstancy and stupid tweets/declarations
                      Perhaps you should get your facts straight before spewing nonsense and BS.

                      If the meeting ultimately failed it is, mostly, because of the planned military exercises that got maintained even though South and North Korea were initiating peace talks.

                      So not only are you rejoicing about the whole thing failing, you are also taking the opportunity to "dance on its grave".


                      Well, and to quote you on what you were whining about on some other thread, it is not "criticizing the US" that gets you bad reactions from other members, but merely you lack of intellectually honesty (or excess of intellectual laziness, pick one).
                      It is not about being a "hippie" or a "commie", but merely about talking about things you are not interested in knowing and, ultimately, looking like an imbecile.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Ivan le Fou View Post

                        Perhaps you should get your facts straight before spewing nonsense and BS.

                        If the meeting ultimately failed it is, mostly, because of the planned military exercises that got maintained even though South and North Korea were initiating peace talks.
                        Its Trump who cancelled it, so its certainly not the military exercises, unless that's why you're saying they started verbally abusing both South Korean and US officials.

                        In which case Kim should have just dealt with it, or at least not do something so unproductive and without benefit as insult officials. He needs the deal more than Trump does.

                        In any case, its good that it is confirmed that Trump is capable of walking away from these negotiations. That is key to getting a good deal should they be continued. If not, its no big loss, back to the status quo. US got 3 American prisoners back out of it, so even a small gain.


                        Comment


                        • #27
                          North Korea is in the business of humiliating US presidents for the last 20 years, and it´s quite good at it. It´s unimaginable that NK would give up nukes especially considering what´s going on with Iran, and the brilliant Mr Bolton with his Libya model.

                          Ivan, IMO the exercises had no impact. The US administration and SK had already given NK cancellation of exercises in the past. On the contrary, the US needs to show itself strong..strong but not reckless. We went from "Little Rocket Man" to the "honorable" Kim Jong Un back to "angry and hostile".

                          The most stable one is unfortunately"little Rocket man".

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Telmar View Post
                            North Korea is in the business of humiliating US presidents for the last 20 years, and it´s quite good at it. It´s unimaginable that NK would give up nukes especially considering what´s going on with Iran, and the brilliant Mr Bolton with his Libya model.

                            Ivan, IMO the exercises had no impact. The US administration and SK had already given NK cancellation of exercises in the past. On the contrary, the US needs to show itself strong..strong but not reckless. We went from "Little Rocket Man" to the "honorable" Kim Jong Un back to "angry and hostile".

                            The most stable one is unfortunately"little Rocket man".
                            I frankly disagree on the impact the military exercises have had though and I do believe it could have prevented going back to Jong-Un being "angry and hostile" (unless it is the kpop concert that triggered the Norks, who knows...).

                            As for the nicknames, though not really professional to say the least, during his ICBM-crisis Kim was indeed "Little Rocket Man" when threatening to launch them against anybody and everybody.
                            Then was, again "honorable" when the whole peace-talks took place.
                            And then again, "angry and hostile" afterwards.
                            it fits the description of the character at a given time.

                            But you are right that NK dismantelling its nuclear installations "for free" was odd. Though the proposal was made before the Iran-deal cancellation and before Bolton's comment, these two events can have very well participated in re-heating the tensions..

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Telmar View Post
                              North Korea is in the business of humiliating US presidents for the last 20 years, and it´s quite good at it. It´s unimaginable that NK would give up nukes especially considering what´s going on with Iran, and the brilliant Mr Bolton with his Libya model.

                              Ivan, IMO the exercises had no impact. The US administration and SK had already given NK cancellation of exercises in the past. On the contrary, the US needs to show itself strong..strong but not reckless. We went from &quot;Little Rocket Man&quot; to the &quot;honorable&quot; Kim Jong Un back to &quot;angry and hostile&quot;.

                              The most stable one is unfortunately&quot;little Rocket man&quot;.
                              It s not rocketman the issue nor the military exercises. It s Bolton, Pence and ultimately Trump approach ala Lybia plan/fate before even any beginning of negociation that torpedoed the whole thing.
                              When you come with sentences saying that NK must first comply otherwise it will end like Libya which is nothing else than a threat, it is not very constructive especially with a regime of such a sensitive nature like DPRK that doesnt need a lot of heated arguments to fall back on a defensive stance.
                              That s facts not spouting BS except in trumpistas fanboys mind.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                The problem lies within the fact that Trump and rocketman have very high ego and neither want to be threatened or feel insulted. So status quo.

                                Even that chucklehead hawkish numpty Bolton admitted that the Lybia comparison was lame. The summit could have happened. In the end, does it matter if it doesn't?

                                DPNK won't give up its nuke, while Trump and the US are unlikely to stop the drills in the peninsula nevermind send back home the ~25,000 troops.

                                Comment

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