Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Russian spy critically ill in hospital after 'being poisoned' in Salisbury

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Originally posted by merk666 View Post

    I remember how Britain officials explained Scripals survival - that Britain has high level of medicine, special antidots and methods of treatment...
    and?
    also - if both of last victims died, nobody could answer, how they were exposed.
    i really am afraid that the last victim could die, or "lose his memory".
    Her mother was in the news earlier in the week complaining that they were not putting in the same amount of resources to save her than they had to the Scripals.

    Don't know but I suspect that you don't try that hard to save a druggy waster - police were looking for clues in a shooting gallery in the local park - nice

    Comment


    • Originally posted by blackcatnursery View Post

      Her mother was in the news earlier in the week complaining that they were not putting in the same amount of resources to save her than they had to the Scripals.

      Don't know but I suspect that you don't try that hard to save a druggy waster - police were looking for clues in a shooting gallery in the local park - nice
      Not everybody will react in the same way to potent support therapies anyway
      Those lads had pre-existing conditions (drug use being one of them) so they may have reacted more poorly than more healthy people

      Comment


      • Originally posted by merk666 View Post
        they both were found quickly. the woman switched off couple of hours before the man, and then he called paramedics. later, he was with friend, when his behaviour became strange, and the friend called paramedics. police found that they consumed drugs that day.
        Finding does not means using right kind of therapy of the bat. They propably started with runing usual in this case durg tests including fenatyl. Considering certain guy in lead coffin they propably were suspecting something dirty from the start with Skripals.

        Another thing is how the substance got in to their system. Skripalls were exposed throu skin contact that is honestly worst possible way to expose someone to nerve agent also one that would ensure enough time to escape for attacker.

        One of unusual properties of Novichok is that it can be used as a fine powder while mantaining its lethal properties. Based on info i could find this form also can bost its persistence. Its possible that attackers had the agent in this form and it was how second victims found it. They could have inhaled or ingested it thinking its some kind of narcotic.

        Originally posted by Mordoror View Post

        Not everybody will react in the same way to potent support therapies anyway
        Those lads had pre-existing conditions (drug use being one of them) so they may have reacted more poorly than more healthy people
        yeah and a lot in recovery depends on how quickly they are delivered, what amount of exposure was sustained and many other factors

        Comment


        • And now London is, unexpectedly, blaming Moscow for the death of the woman.

          Comment


          • I suppose that a 'murder' enquiry sounds better than 'manslaughter' but I fail to see how it can be murder as it is unlikely that these two were targetted as they seem to have scavenged something that killed one of them.

            Unless that is you believe that this couple were the unidentified pair of people, now almost airbrushed out, who were in the park at the same time as the Skripals back in March that someone wanted gone, in which case 'murder' would be correct.

            Given the various poisons that could have been ingested by this couple it will be interesting to see if we get a public Coroners Inquest to identify the cause. If not it would be appropriate to smell a rat.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Ivan le Fou View Post
              And now London is, unexpectedly, blaming Moscow for the death of the woman.
              No surprise there but it is a factual as opposed to PR dead horse as neither Porton Down or OPCW could be persuaded to blame it on the Russians given those organisations, as opposed to the press, know roughly how many countries around the World have made that kind of CW agent.

              Interestingly, given how close it is to other compounds like organo-phosphate farm chemicals, it is apparently quite difficult to separate them, which was of course the Soviets original intention, leading to the much more likely possibility that this was what was found and injected.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Ivan le Fou View Post
                And now London is, unexpectedly, blaming Moscow for the death of the woman.
                No surprise at all. Everyone's going to stick to their guns this far down the line. London accusing Moscow of murder. Moscow sounding the alarm over an outbreak of poisonings in the UK. Someone's being mighty cynical here.

                Comment


                • https://www.yahoo.com/news/novichok-...172024179.html

                  A 45-year-old British man who was left critically ill after being exposed to the Soviet-era nerve agent Novichok has regained consciousness, the hospital treating him said Tuesday.

                  https://www.reuters.com/article/us-b...source=twitter

                  “Officers from the investigation team have spoken briefly to Charlie and will be looking to further speak with him in the coming days as they continue to try and establish how he and Dawn came to be contaminated with the nerve agent,” London police said in a statement.
                  Last edited by Guma; 11-07-2018, 04:06 PM.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by JohninMK View Post

                    No surprise there but it is a factual as opposed to PR dead horse as neither Porton Down or OPCW could be persuaded to blame it on the Russians given those organisations, as opposed to the press, know roughly how many countries around the World have made that kind of CW agent.

                    Interestingly, given how close it is to other compounds like organo-phosphate farm chemicals, it is apparently quite difficult to separate them, which was of course the Soviets original intention, leading to the much more likely possibility that this was what was found and injected.
                    Making novichok kind agent does not make it this particular version. According to one of creators even if you knew formula you would not be able to easily replicate it in lab conditions without proper know how.

                    The second claim is wee bit more complicated. Similiarity is used to create less dangerous false positive substances for training but still if you use more sophisticated methods nope this wont work.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Asheren View Post
                      Making novichok kind agent does not make it this particular version. According to one of creators even if you knew formula you would not be able to easily replicate it in lab conditions without proper know how.
                      The second claim is wee bit more complicated. Similiarity is used to create less dangerous false positive substances for training but still if you use more sophisticated methods nope this wont work.
                      1. if you do not know how to create novichok, ask chech chemists, they know. remember that scandal.
                      2. spectrum of a-234 was registered in american database of standarts, at least at 1989. to get a spectrum you must have a sample.
                      3. soviet chemists had not found antidote for this class of chem agents, and it is evident that americans, even chechs should try to do it.
                      4. brits are famous CW designers, and it's 100% that Porton Down can make it.
                      i am sure, that a lot of countries could synthesize it, even underground drug production labs.
                      west must work with this problem, because this class of cw could be used by terrorists.
                      the west just fools you, speaking that it is "exactly the russian thing" and they know nothing.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by merk666 View Post
                        1. if you do not know how to create novichok, ask chech chemists, they know. remember that scandal.
                        2. spectrum of a-234 was registered in american database of standarts, at least at 1989. to get a spectrum you must have a sample.
                        3. soviet chemists had not found antidote for this class of chem agents, and it is evident that americans, even chechs should try to do it.
                        4. brits are famous CW designers, and it's 100% that Porton Down can make it.
                        i am sure, that a lot of countries could synthesize it, even underground drug production labs.
                        west must work with this problem, because this class of cw could be used by terrorists.
                        the west just fools you, speaking that it is "exactly the russian thing" and they know nothing.

                        1-3 Chech made different kind of novichok and it was not a scandal to anyone with a clue. Production of CW for any purpose is stricly limited and controled by interational authorities. Allowed amounts are soo small that are source of constant grumbling from militaries and researchers.
                        4th read 1-3 then say again with straight face that UK runs an illegal CW program...

                        The rest is soo silly i cant even bother to reply. If its soo simple i dare you order precursors for nerve agent.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Asheren View Post


                          1-3 Chech made different kind of novichok and it was not a scandal to anyone with a clue. Production of CW for any purpose is stricly limited and controled by interational authorities. Allowed amounts are soo small that are source of constant grumbling from militaries and researchers.
                          4th read 1-3 then say again with straight face that UK runs an illegal CW program...

                          The rest is soo silly i cant even bother to reply. If its soo simple i dare you order precursors for nerve agent.
                          What international authorities? The OPCW? They monitor chemical weapons production (and their destruction) in Russia too.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by flamming_python View Post

                            What international authorities? The OPCW? They monitor chemical weapons production (and their destruction) in Russia too.
                            You got a cookie. Now the question is why then UK demanded Russians to disclose information on Novichok program?

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Asheren View Post
                              You got a cookie. Now the question is why then UK demanded Russians to disclose information on Novichok program?
                              as i remember Novichok class agents is not under control of opcw. how they could detect it and say about its high purity without knowledge...it's quite rhetoric question.
                              may be good reading for you.
                              http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/49116.htm

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Asheren View Post

                                You got a cookie. Now the question is why then UK demanded Russians to disclose information on Novichok program?
                                Who is the UK to demand information from Russia? Especially when Russia didn't get any answers from them back when this whole thing was kicking off.

                                Russia is hardly under any obligation to tell the UK anything about anything.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X