Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

West Point cadet shares ‘Communism will win’ selfie on #VeteransForKaepernick

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • West Point cadet shares ‘Communism will win’ selfie on #VeteransForKaepernick


  • Hildemel
    replied
    I am willing to fight both sides!

    ....at Scrabble.

    Leave a comment:


  • Te Zorro
    replied
    Yes comrade, will you join my revolution?

    Leave a comment:


  • digrar
    replied
    So we've gone past talking about the shit head West Point cadet?

    Leave a comment:


  • Mordoror
    replied
    Originally posted by Xaito View Post
    I'm not an ideologue when it comes to this. I just noticed that attempts at communism spectacularly failed and most of it's modern day and many of it's historical proponents (that I know of) are 50 shades of ****s.
    Of course they failed. They weren't left alone to develop. Had the fully capitalist system failed (like it has temporiraly on several instance) we would had the reverse discussion. Communism was never developped in an independant not hostile environment. That's clearly doesn't help to say if one system is better independantly than the other. The conclusion of our history is that capitalism prevailed (so far) not that it is a better system


    That's just modern, technologically advanced life and human nature.
    Wannabe communists with an industry worth the name were exploiting resources and fighting wars just as well.
    Countries that are just plainly failing and thus don't have an industry that can take advantage of said resources or don't have a capability to force project due to lack of military means kinda don't count, because that can't be an attractive goal for us.
    Also personal anecdote... I don't remember ever being confronted with acid rain while living in Germany. I do remember it being a thing in Russia.
    I personaly remember acid rains in Germany, maybe you are too young for that. Otherwise you are plain correct and come to what i wanted to express. Both systems have the same abuse
    Both systems waged wars, polluted, grabbed land and ressources. One is continuing to do so


    Ask a Venezuelan if dog meat is tasty.
    In a capitalist system you have to have like 0 skills and never improve in the course of your life to stay poor. Otherwise you will always improve your situation no matter how low you start.
    False. Fully false. Entirely false. The self made man ala US ideology, climbing alone the classes ladder is dead since the 90s-2000s. Oh of course, you will have sold few examples :such and such poor lad coming from poor suburb/hood becoming a famous sportsman, artist, businessman. Sorry but statisticaly this is BS. 99.99% of people, even if tearing their guts, if not born with a silver spoon in the ass will never go up to the higher classes. That was true in communism too BTW. A good situation is mainly depending of your birth, like in good old days. That's also why we have plenty of people with 2-3 jobs and still in the lower classes. Statistics are not lying. How many blue collars kids achieve to get a upper class position . Check the numbers

    Dude, planned economy is like leading by a mile when it comes to this.
    They'll also add insult to injury by making scientists dig for potatoes or some shit like that when they feel like it.
    Planned economy is a shit. It's only the other side of the medal. From economical pov, both communism and capitalism were/are based on continuous grow. That 's the root of the issues of both systems. The planet has a limited seize, limited amount of ressource. In the end, this is unsustainable.



    wages are up for negotiation, supply and demand.
    Bringing useful and in demand skills to the table helps. A lot.
    Paying people who lick stamps for a living the same wage as someone who's exceptional gives bad incentives which will inevitably lead to bad results.
    Of course, the communist ideology of "all equals no matter the skill" is stupid. You lose skilled people with that. However, you'll note that in most capitalist countries, the amount of unemployement is not neglictible. Which makes wages pretty low in regard to what they should have been. It's mechanical : less position available than people needing those positions = lowered wages


    Managers pressuring people into quitting, unproductiveness, illness, death etc. is unhealthy for a company. Losing skilled people who your business depends on hurts.
    Like in evolution theory, natural selection will hit such companies sooner or later and they'll either have to change or go under.
    See what i was writing above. That may be true in some very specific sectors but in tertiarized economies, robotized (or soon to be) economies your theory is not functioning
    I have plenty of examples where the management is toxic to gain productivity. HR are considered disposable (offer and demand again)


    Sorry, but cheating is just human nature and wannabe communist systems have proven to buckle under theft, corruption, lies and manipulation faster than capitalist ones.
    Care for the customer is actually quite important for companies that are reliable on keeping their customers. In fact in a free market with competition you'd be a fool to not have your customer's interest at heart.
    You'll see this all the time when working in the industry. Industry standards, certifications etc.
    Oftentimes a company will get certified on it's quality management system that forces it to evaluate it's processes (among other things) specifically for customer satisfaction and force them to take measures to correct problems in that regard. If companies don't do it, they very well may not be able to find customers.
    Abuse of addictions and human weaknesses is kind of an exception to the rule - but even then I think if you'd let it play out until the bitter end, that problem will eventually self correct. If only by your customers not being able to pay up.
    Yes communism has done it too. But as it is dead, the one openly cheating now are capitalists. And companies care about evaluation when they are far from a almost monopoly situation (meaning there is conccurence). It is far to be the case for a lot of companies. + you have the lobby game that helps a lot to "cheat" "almost" "legally". It may be legal it is sometimes not morale. Very much like several kind of shit communism sold to peoples under its boot. Ratting your neighbourg was legal, not really morale



    Globalism, yes. Then again I think that's a different ideology and I'm no globalist. I don't think globalism is a decisive ingredient in the equation. Global trade, maybe. The whole bureaucratic monster gobbling up every culture is a different beast. Capitalist systems worked just fine when let loose on federative governed entities.
    And let's not start about communism and their global revolution thing.
    State controle is needed as a quality management. Otherwise, it's opening an already wide avenue for abuses. Bureaucracy has gone a bit far but without bureaucracy, you don't have safety controls, health controls, antimonopoly laws, anticartel laws. The prey is the consumer in this case



    Again, I think you rail against modern, technologically advanced life, wealthy first world problems etc.
    I think the capitalist oriented medical research has spared us from quite more pressing, lethal problems.
    And quite frankly I'll take my chances with cardiac arrest while gobbling down a stake with XXL fries basked in gravy and salute the people who made it possible for me not to die to trivial things like minor injuries or getting coughed on by some random people in the street.
    I disagree strongly
    It is not limited to 1st world. Ask yoursel why there is an overwieght pandemic included (in fact they are the most exposed) in remote poor countries or populations like Pacific islands, eskimos, India
    And BTW soviet medical system was far from bad on the contrary to what a lot of people are thinking. It worked well with the tools it had. Of course it doesn't help when others for example don't want to sell you the most advanced antibiotics. Well it did found alternative solutions that worked. Rare are those aknowledging this because it goes against the narrative SU = shitland




    I don't know how things are where you live, but personally I can't complain so far about etching a living for myself in the industry.
    What makes me worry more for our future are neomarxist tendencies in our educational institutions, political correctness stifling ideas and free speech, victimhood mentality with calls for revolutions and violent means to pursue idalistic (unattainable) goals.
    I can't complain either. I am middle upper class, earning enough money to live well, offer me medical support if needed, offering me leisure time if needed. Thing is that i am not representative of the population. And BTW global effects are affecting me too, cause, you know, they are global. I have the money to mitigate the issue (less lead/mercury/pesticides in my plate cause i have the money to buy organic food but not 0 lead/mercury/pesticides)
    I agree that political correctness, SJW shit, clusterisation of the society into small groups with political agendas (be it neomarxists, religious, ethnodifferentialists, on the far right spectrum) are all dangers. Ironicaly, this atomization of our societies wouldn't have been possible under a communist system

    PS :BTW i worked in industry and i have enough examples of "care for the customer in words/frontage" and lack of care for real (with the idea, not spotten = not risk) that you wont convince me that the real interest of big companies (i am not talking about small companies or niche companies with limited market) is really customer care.

    Leave a comment:


  • Xaito
    replied
    Originally posted by Mordoror View Post

    Sure about that ? I am not
    I can list why, even if proponents of capitalism will jump against the wall because i dared to touch their beloved ideology
    I'm not an ideologue when it comes to this. I just noticed that attempts at communism spectacularly failed and most of it's modern day and many of it's historical proponents (that I know of) are 50 shades of ****s.

    Originally posted by Mordoror View Post
    1 - over - exploitation of natural ressources leading to
    - direct and indirect wars for oil, water, agriculture land, diamond/gold/silver/uranium mines etc

    - pollution of earth, air and water with their health consequences some spectacular (Bhopal anyone ?) some more insidious
    That's just modern, technologically advanced life and human nature.
    Wannabe communists with an industry worth the name were exploiting resources and fighting wars just as well.
    Countries that are just plainly failing and thus don't have an industry that can take advantage of said resources or don't have a capability to force project due to lack of military means kinda don't count, because that can't be an attractive goal for us.
    Also personal anecdote... I don't remember ever being confronted with acid rain while living in Germany. I do remember it being a thing in Russia.

    Originally posted by Mordoror View Post
    - impoverishment of populations. Ask Bangladeshi looming workers if they get rich, doing low cost T shirts for Western countries
    Ask a Venezuelan if dog meat is tasty.
    In a capitalist system you have to have like 0 skills and never improve in the course of your life to stay poor. Otherwise you will always improve your situation no matter how low you start.

    Originally posted by Mordoror View Post
    - uprooting of populations. There are plenty of examples where whole populations had to be resettled in poor conditions for the benefit of agro or industry companies
    Dude, planned economy is like leading by a mile when it comes to this.
    They'll also add insult to injury by making scientists dig for potatoes or some shit like that when they feel like it.


    Originally posted by Mordoror View Post
    2- schizophrenic exploitation of human ressources leading to

    - wages disconnected from the share value of corporates (with consequences being unemployement or part time employement or poor workers)
    wages are up for negotiation, supply and demand.
    Bringing useful and in demand skills to the table helps. A lot.
    Paying people who lick stamps for a living the same wage as someone who's exceptional gives bad incentives which will inevitably lead to bad results.


    Originally posted by Mordoror View Post
    - manager pressures top down leading to suicides, metabolic disorders, mass shooting at jobs, overuse of drugs including opiates in order to fulfill the saint output. Actually we have reached a level that may be worse than what it used to be during Fordism and Taylorism. Especially when knowing that chain work during fordism was compensated by low rent worker houses, close to the job housing and corporate sponsored food prices for the working force.
    Managers pressuring people into quitting, unproductiveness, illness, death etc. is unhealthy for a company. Losing skilled people who your business depends on hurts.
    Like in evolution theory, natural selection will hit such companies sooner or later and they'll either have to change or go under.

    Originally posted by Mordoror View Post
    3-lack of care for the customer

    - Corporates are made to make money, that's granted. They do not need to be hypocrite and sell/lobby for stuff that is a poison for their customers with the shark smile saying that it's OK
    Tobacco , Asbestos, Fatty food are some few examples. You'll tell it's customer responsability to avoid that. I'd answer that's partly true, partly only because Tobacco and low quality high fat high sugar food had willingly and knowingly added addictive stuff within to increase sales
    How many corporates have been busted cheating those past few years with health/energy/safety regulations.....and how many have gone under the radar ....
    Sorry, but cheating is just human nature and wannabe communist systems have proven to buckle under theft, corruption, lies and manipulation faster than capitalist ones.
    Care for the customer is actually quite important for companies that are reliable on keeping their customers. In fact in a free market with competition you'd be a fool to not have your customer's interest at heart.
    You'll see this all the time when working in the industry. Industry standards, certifications etc.
    Oftentimes a company will get certified on it's quality management system that forces it to evaluate it's processes (among other things) specifically for customer satisfaction and force them to take measures to correct problems in that regard. If companies don't do it, they very well may not be able to find customers.
    Abuse of addictions and human weaknesses is kind of an exception to the rule - but even then I think if you'd let it play out until the bitter end, that problem will eventually self correct. If only by your customers not being able to pay up.


    Originally posted by Mordoror View Post
    4- cultural annihilation
    Globalized capitalism (like previously communism) needs a standardized human because it makes a standardized market. Forget cultural differences and sensitivities
    Globalism, yes. Then again I think that's a different ideology and I'm no globalist. I don't think globalism is a decisive ingredient in the equation. Global trade, maybe. The whole bureaucratic monster gobbling up every culture is a different beast. Capitalist systems worked just fine when let loose on federative governed entities.
    And let's not start about communism and their global revolution thing.


    Originally posted by Mordoror View Post
    All that have immediate consequences : death at job or health issues from work
    Middle term and Long term consequences : cancers, neurologic disorders, biodiversity erosion, overweight pandemic, diabetis pandemic, lead/dioxin/pesticids in the blood of the whole earth population etc
    Again, I think you rail against modern, technologically advanced life, wealthy first world problems etc.
    I think the capitalist oriented medical research has spared us from quite more pressing, lethal problems.
    And quite frankly I'll take my chances with cardiac arrest while gobbling down a stake with XXL fries basked in gravy and salute the people who made it possible for me not to die to trivial things like minor injuries or getting coughed on by some random people in the street.


    Originally posted by Mordoror View Post
    Nowaday, capitalism is not anymore the familial one we used to praise before (and for which i was a supporter too). Now it has become a predatory system that benefits only the upper franges of the population
    Middle class is vanishing
    Blue collars are good only to work and die in their own social swamp without any chance to climb the social ladder anymore (or with so much chances/probabilities that it is statistically neglictible)

    The casualties are only slower than under communism. A 9 mm in the back of the neck was of course quicker .... from that pov, communism was more effective than nowaday globalized capitalism
    I don't know how things are where you live, but personally I can't complain so far about etching a living for myself in the industry.
    What makes me worry more for our future are neomarxist tendencies in our educational institutions, political correctness stifling ideas and free speech, victimhood mentality with calls for revolutions and violent means to pursue idalistic (unattainable) goals.

    Leave a comment:


  • Bitogno
    replied
    Originally posted by Negan View Post
    Becoming infamous appears to be a goal of a lot of people have these days.
    In these social media days people want to be famous for any reason.

    Leave a comment:


  • Mordoror
    replied
    Originally posted by Xaito View Post



    Now I'm sure someone will say we never reached true capitalism etc. but I gotta say - so far statistically the road towards it seems to be a better deal than the road towards Communism.
    Sure about that ? I am not
    I can list why, even if proponents of capitalism will jump against the wall because i dared to touch their beloved ideology

    1 - over - exploitation of natural ressources leading to
    - direct and indirect wars for oil, water, agriculture land, diamond/gold/silver/uranium mines etc

    - pollution of earth, air and water with their health consequences some spectacular (Bhopal anyone ?) some more insidious

    - impoverishment of populations. Ask Bangladeshi looming workers if they get rich, doing low cost T shirts for Western countries

    - uprooting of populations. There are plenty of examples where whole populations had to be resettled in poor conditions for the benefit of agro or industry companies

    2- schizophrenic exploitation of human ressources leading to

    - wages disconnected from the share value of corporates (with consequences being unemployement or part time employement or poor workers)

    - manager pressures top down leading to suicides, metabolic disorders, mass shooting at jobs, overuse of drugs including opiates in order to fulfill the saint output. Actually we have reached a level that may be worse than what it used to be during Fordism and Taylorism. Especially when knowing that chain work during fordism was compensated by low rent worker houses, close to the job housing and corporate sponsored food prices for the working force.

    3-lack of care for the customer

    - Corporates are made to make money, that's granted. They do not need to be hypocrite and sell/lobby for stuff that is a poison for their customers with the shark smile saying that it's OK
    Tobacco , Asbestos, Fatty food are some few examples. You'll tell it's customer responsability to avoid that. I'd answer that's partly true, partly only because Tobacco and low quality high fat high sugar food had willingly and knowingly added addictive stuff within to increase sales
    How many corporates have been busted cheating those past few years with health/energy/safety regulations.....and how many have gone under the radar ....

    4- cultural annihilation
    Globalized capitalism (like previously communism) needs a standardized human because it makes a standardized market. Forget cultural differences and sensitivities

    All that have immediate consequences : death at job or health issues from work
    Middle term and Long term consequences : cancers, neurologic disorders, biodiversity erosion, overweight pandemic, diabetis pandemic, lead/dioxin/pesticids in the blood of the whole earth population etc

    Nowaday, capitalism is not anymore the familial one we used to praise before (and for which i was a supporter too). Now it has become a predatory system that benefits only the upper franges of the population
    Middle class is vanishing
    Blue collars are good only to work and die in their own social swamp without any chance to climb the social ladder anymore (or with so much chances/probabilities that it is statistically neglictible)

    The casualties are only slower than under communism. A 9 mm in the back of the neck was of course quicker .... from that pov, communism was more effective than nowaday globalized capitalism
    Last edited by Mordoror; 21-06-2018, 04:31 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Xaito
    replied
    Originally posted by Te Zorro View Post

    Might do. Shall we try?
    Again? Better stock up on toilet paper then I guess. It kinda sucks having to use newspapers to wipe your butt.




    Originally posted by Mordoror View Post

    The difference between communism and capitalism is that on one side, workers/peasants were/are murdered by the state
    And on the other side, they are pushed to a slow death by corporate deeds
    In both cases, human life value is zilch in regard of ideology in order to reach the state of Homo sovieticus or Homo dollaricus
    Now I'm sure someone will say we never reached true capitalism etc. but I gotta say - so far statistically the road towards it seems to be a better deal than the road towards Communism.

    Leave a comment:


  • Mordoror
    replied
    Originally posted by Hildemel View Post
    According to Communists those 100 million would vote "yes" even in death as their blood stains the hands of the capitalists. It was their fault they died!
    (And because they have no other choice and no freedom to vote. The glorious Ministry would say the regretted their actions as they died)
    The difference between communism and capitalism is that on one side, workers/peasants were/are murdered by the state
    And on the other side, they are pushed to a slow death by corporate deeds
    In both cases, human life value is zilch in regard of ideology in order to reach the state of Homo sovieticus or Homo dollaricus

    Leave a comment:


  • Hildemel
    replied
    According to Communists those 100 million would vote "yes" even in death as their blood stains the hands of the capitalists. It was their fault they died!
    (And because they have no other choice and no freedom to vote. The glorious Ministry would say the regretted their actions as they died)

    Leave a comment:


  • TheKiwi
    replied
    100 million would vote "no" except they were murdered and so can't. Plus my "no" vote as well.

    Leave a comment:


  • Te Zorro
    replied
    Originally posted by Xaito View Post

    so you're saying... communism won't actually win?
    Might do. Shall we try?

    Leave a comment:


  • riderboy
    replied

    Leave a comment:


  • Xaito
    replied
    Originally posted by Te Zorro View Post

    Did you know that none of those are communist except in name?
    so you're saying... communism won't actually win?

    Leave a comment:

Working...
X