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State of emergency declared amid violence at Charlottesvilles 'Unite the Right' rally

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  • #31
    We see it everywhere, not simply in the US...people are radicalizing. There´s no reason to remove a General Lee statue, but there is even much less reason to be putting on waffen ss helmets on your ugly head and flying swastikas and other symbols of hate. As for "unite the right", I consider myself a right wing person and I have nothing in common with this filth.

    That´s where we need people with power to be advocates of solution finding and going forward instead of ideological radicalization and petty provocation.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by Ivan le Fou View Post

      Both have been Historically harmful?
      They should, therefore, receive the same treatment.
      Ivan, many regimes, empires, kingdoms have been historically harmful and murderous.

      But the nazi ideology is murderous by design.

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      • #33
        Originally posted by Telmar View Post
        We see it everywhere, not simply in the US...people are radicalizing. There´s no reason to remove a General Lee statue, but there is even much less reason to be putting on waffen ss helmets on your ugly head and flying swastikas and other symbols of hate. As for "unite the right", I consider myself a right wing person and I have nothing in common with this filth.

        That´s where we need people with power to be advocates of solution finding and going forward instead of ideological radicalization and petty provocation.
        I'm sure the radicalized people from both sides of the barricades would love to hear that there's some strongman in power willing to solve their crisis, but these same people would disagree on the origins of the crisis and on the nature of the problem. To me it seems like a natural phase of psychological breakdown is swooping across the (largely western) civilization, and you just gotta live through it with all the consequences that will come out of it.

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        • #34
          Originally posted by Telmar View Post

          Ivan, many regimes, empires, kingdoms have been historically harmful and murderous.

          But the nazi ideology is murderous by design.
          That was not real national socialism!

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          • #35
            Originally posted by Ivan le Fou View Post

            That was not real national socialism!
            Even if you look at the ideological roots of Nazism and Communism (Nietzsche and Marx), you can see that one talks about the supremacy of a new race called the "ubermensch" which Hitler (incorrectly) used for the German nation, while the second doesn't focus on any kind of supremacy and talks merely about the reorganizing of social structure/classes in benefit of the entire global community. The seeds of racist violence are more so present in Nazi's chosen ideological roots (even though Nietzsche never intended it this way), and less so in Commie's.
            The problem is that Nietzsche's philosophy was intentionally misused and abused to build the Nazi narrative which led to external violence and attempted extermination of racial/ethnic groups, while Marx's ideology was used by some to justify the overthrowing of a stale old regime in Russia, which didn't lead to any form of racist/ethnic violence, other than imperialism which by no means was any different from what the Russian Empire already indulged in prior to the Commie uprising.

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            • #36
              Lyn I do believe Nietzche was dragged inside the nazi ideology although his thoughts meant something else. I think it was his sister who tried to surf on the "Nietzche" name and use him as an inspiration for the fast rising nazi party ideologues.

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              • #37
                Originally posted by Telmar View Post
                Lyn I do believe Nietzche was dragged inside the nazi ideology although his thoughts meant something else. I think it was his sister who tried to surf on the "Nietzche" name and use him as an inspiration for the fast rising nazi party ideologues.
                It was indeed his sister who published his "will to power" in her own interpretation (rewritten from Nietzsche's scrapped notebooks) after Nietzsche's own death. But it was Nietzsche's reputation of a brilliant German mind that caused his persona to be abused both by his sister and the Nazis.
                As for what his thoughts meant, I also agree that he was trying to push a different narrative, and the fact that he never himself published his final book may imply that he failed to conclude his philosophy properly. Nevertheless I'm a big fan of his.

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by Soldat_Américain View Post
                  West Bellamy lit the match.
                  It takes two, i.e. either party can and do act as they do without cause and effect from the other. i.e. white supremacists, and anti-whites / black supremacists..
                  but he didn't help.

                  Charlottesville is a very liberal city in Central Virginia which voted overwhelmingly for President Obama twice and no doubt took a lot of pride in voting for Wes Bellamy on race alone. They thought they would simply pat themselves on the back about how tolerant and diverse they were. In the process they demanded no vetting from the media for a man who is essentially a carpetbagger from Atlanta with a criminal history of assaulting police officers and a blatant black supremacist.
                  Maybe persons, some at least, will quit voting on race alone, or out of guilt, or out of feeling superior about how tolerant and diverse they are, or out of hate, or bigotry, and quit voting because of Party, but actually think about why they are voting for the person. or Party.


                  http://www.jasonkessler.net/blog/lea...who-talk-white

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Telmar View Post
                    We see it everywhere, not simply in the US...people are radicalizing. There´s no reason to remove a General Lee statue, but there is even much less reason to be putting on waffen ss helmets on your ugly head and flying swastikas and other symbols of hate.
                    Not to mention that the presence of the vile and terroristic (which is exactly what that car attack was; and no, it doesn't negate antifa/BLM violence either) elements such as Nazis and KKK doesn't exactly help the cause of those wanting to preserve Confederate heritage (like the statue) with sincere historical intentions (as opposed to bringing back the a golden age of chattel slavery and Jim Crow).
                    It goes without saying that those who want to preserve that heritage without the hate would do well to viciously and continously rebuke them (not just a "we condemn the violence" but "they aren't even welcome to state 'alternative views' even if they have a constitutional right; we also have a right to shout them down").
                    Last edited by IraGlacialis; 13-08-2017, 05:30 AM.

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                    • #40
                      Interesting, how many protests from the Left have someone run them down? (and the Left in America protests every week) over some "injustice' (whether real or not)

                      And no, I do not agree with the premise of these protests however to run people down is lawless and criminal. They have the same right to protest as BLM, La Raza, the Communist/Occupy Wall-street crowds and muslim groups do.

                      http://nypost.com/2017/08/12/vehicle...y-in-virginia/

                      One person was killed when a car plowed into a group of counter-protesters at a white supremacist rally in Virginia on Saturday afternoon, authorities said.
                      Shocking video from the scene shows a vehicle zooming toward the crowd in downtown Charlottesville, VA. The car appeared to strike two other vehicles, sending protesters flying onto their windshields. Video showed blood spattered on the windshield of one car.

                      “I am heartbroken that a life has been lost here,” said Charlottesville mayor Mike Singer.
                      Witnesses said the driver – going about 40 miles per hour – rammed into the crowd on purpose.

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                      • #41
                        RIP to the dead, speedy recovery to those injured. I am unsure of exactly how the car incident occurred, but it appeared to me the 20 yr old guy's auto slammed into the back of a second auto which then hit the crowd?? I don't know the fine points of the laws, but it would seem possible if the front auto killed the one lady, that perhaps the 20 yr old's lawyer may plead for a charge of "manslaughter" or reckless killing, rather than the charge of "murder" which is what the news is reporting. Even if he did it intentionally that is difficult to prove in court I would think? Not sure how federal hate crimes work.

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Telmar View Post
                          Lyn I do believe Nietzche was dragged inside the nazi ideology although his thoughts meant something else. I think it was his sister who tried to surf on the "Nietzche" name and use him as an inspiration for the fast rising nazi party ideologues.
                          This.

                          Nietzche would have told Hitler and his sycophants to bugger off.

                          Nietzche clearly stated his views on contemporary anti-Semitic dimwits.

                          Nietzche's sister was a stupid and greedy shrew.

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                          • #43
                            Charlottesville: Trump criticised over response to far-right
                            http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-40915569

                            MSM and regressive leftists are freaking out right now over this, but he's absolutely right. We've covered the left-wing violence of Antifa and BLM extensively here, this isn't just coming from one side. Seems people are quick to forget or just deliberately ignore the fact that said groups literally tried to burn a college campus down because a right wing gay guy who they considered a Nazi was supposed to be delivering a speech inside. That someone tried to kill Republicans at a baseball practice match because he believed Trump was a traitor who was in bed with the Russians. For every Dylann Roof there are more James Hodgkinsons/Micah Johnsons. It's so fucking hypocritical that the same people here in Britain that defended Corbyn for condemning "all sides" in the troubles when asked if he regretted support for the IRA, are frothing at the mouth for Trump's statement. Either Trump and Corbyn are both right or they're both wrong, pick one.

                            It would appear that the violence could have been avoided completely. Charlottesville authorities tried to revoke the protest permit for Emancipation Park and the ACLU stepped in and defended their right to hold a legal rally and so they went ahead with it. At first they were all in the Park and largely seperated from the counter-protesters apart from when people were trying to get into the area where they were attacked by Antifa and BLM types. Then the police came along and told them that the rally was an "unlawful gathering" and they had to disperse, and thus inevitably ended up having to face the counter-protesters who had surrounded them previously, which was obviously going to lead to clashes.

                            The guy who drove the car into people has been detained but there's no details about it, I've heard the car was hit by a rock and so they panicked and tried to get out of the area as fast as they could, but there's nothing to substantiate that claim right now.

                            This idea of uniting the alt-right and the "alt-lite" (ie just right wing conservatives) was a bad idea to begin with, when you're labelled a Nazi when you're not a Nazi but attend a rally populated with a lot of Nazis and general far-right racist shitheads, you're basically shooting yourself in the foot and justifying all the times you were called a Nazi.

                            What a shit show...

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                            • #44
                              Not a big fan of Antifa, not a big fan of vehicle born political statements from ISIS or Alt-right either.

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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by IraGlacialis View Post
                                Not to mention that the presence of the vile and terroristic (which is exactly what that car attack was; and no, it doesn't negate antifa/BLM violence either) elements such as Nazis and KKK doesn't exactly help the cause of those wanting to preserve Confederate heritage (like the statue) with sincere historical intentions (as opposed to bringing back the a golden age of chattel slavery and Jim Crow).
                                It goes without saying that those who want to preserve that heritage without the hate would do well to viciously and continously rebuke them (not just a "we condemn the violence" but "they aren't even welcome to state 'alternative views' even if they have a constitutional right; we also have a right to shout them down").
                                I feel sorry for the honest people who want to preserve the South heritage and history. Because their view, which I do consider legitimate, is being hijacked by a bunch of thugs. And as you say, they would be well inspired to openly refuse these people.

                                This is also what we ask Muslims to do in the light of islamic terrorist attacks and islamist thugs.

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