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Bundeswehr / German Armed Forces General Discussion Thread

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  • Yes, kids, that is how we played video games back in the day.


    • Also, this is to my knowledge, the only advertising game for the Bundeswehr to this day. If I think of the mild controversy that the release of America's Army caused several years ago (even though it was popular with gamers), I can only imagine the uproar an official Bundeswehr first person shooter would cause

      Even though it would probably feature no combat either, but rather be like Minecraft where you build wells and schools and speak to village elders while drinking tea Or maybe a survival game where, instead of fighting hunger and thirst, you have to continually scrounge for spare parts before your equipment like tanks and aircraft all break down. Or a manager-style simulation where you have to juggle multiple defense contracts with exploding costs while putting enough cash into your retirement fund to leave your job before the media finds out and causes the next big scandal
      Last edited by Cherno; 24-08-2018, 02:11 PM.


      • Even though Germany's richer than ever before they'd rather pay two billions to hide the problem than one billion to solve the problem.

        The voter wants that, the CDU Merkel governement fucks up for 12 years now and only forks out money to hide and obfuscate or as a quick patch remedy. Totally incompetent AND dishonest.

        That's particularly true in the case of the lobby-less military. What needs doing? Imho:

        Step 1, devise a proper white book precisely describing the military's role. If the government laid down the book at long last and declared what it seems to think – that intervenionism is too "risqué" politically – that role would be homeland protection, and homeland protection only. If you want an expeditionary force, you'll have to pay for it.

        Who shall do that? The persons not knowing if they have to take a dump today or tomorrow? We are surrounded by incompetent careerists. They where bred teh last decades. Independent out of teh box thinking? Naa only grey substandard yes sayers with "soft skills" got up the echelons. Kinda like the french army before WWII.

        Step 2, rigorously cast aside all capacities not needed in order to fill that role. Terminate all projects that are likely to require expensive retrofitting, even at the risk of contractual penalties.

        Not possible because of all the things said before the main problem are incompetent leaders. Both politically as well as militarily.

        Step 3, merge the military's six (!) branches (army, navy, air force, joint support service, medical, cyberspace) in order to reach synergetic effects. Cut down the waterhead: about 180 generals and almost 11000 colonels/ lieutenant colonels for a service this small is stupid.

        Agreed on teh waterhead. The divsision in those branches was made to creat esynergy effects. and I partially agree with that. It makes sense for exampl eto hav ecentzral mainetnace and logisticvs elements.

        Step 4, let. the. market. regulate. itself. Jobs in jeopardy or not, if a domestic company is unable to provide a service, go buy elsewhere. This is especially true in oversaturated segments that (pragmatically speaking) do not put national interests at risk if neglected. We don't need to develop our own transport helicopters, for example, when there are plenty on the market.

        Delicate issue in the end you may end up with nothing. What I agree though is that if there is a European supplier or two let them battle it out. But completely losing track of technologies is no option. Very dangerous.

        Step 5, avoid joint ventures like the plague and don't introduce system platforms if humanely possible. What might sound good from an economist's POV has been a pain more often than not. JVs only make sense if you and your partner require the same or a reasonably similar product; system platforms only do if the mutable components aren't substantial. No matter which country you look at, a majority of multi-role/ system platform projects has been expensive, problem-ridden and not as effective as promised. I'm pretty darn sure buying and sustaining two pieces instead of doing one dual-role piece would've been cheaper in many such instances

        Do not agree. JV are what kept European technology and capability here. This argument is so oftenly repeated and totally ignores many substantial arguments for it.

        In effect the solution is to bring European countries together to commonly define specs. And not go on the idiot trip of the incomptenet people I mentioned above to put its own scent mark on everything just for teh sake of it. Analyse issues scientifically and logically. In the end you need a tool and many other need the same tool.


        • Sollte in Syrien erneut Giftgas eingesetzt werden, halten Politiker von Union, FDP und Grünen eine deutsche Beteiligung in Syrien für möglich. Die SPD ist dagegen.


          • Of course the SPD is against any action.
            They are spineless idiots and their voter base consists of those germans most adamant about looking the other way regardless of how much suffering is being done to innocent people.


            • well, tbh.. i expected more input regarding the possible military action over nw syria but its suspiciously silent here. its a chance to sort shit out and avoid a potential impact on europe from the bw perspective, some sort of blocking adventurism with some tornados instead of f35s.


              • Like anyone cares about Syrians, Hildemel. This is plain BS, the Basic Law is clear as is the Parliamentary Participation Act: Only a mandate of a "System of Collective Security" can be the base for a vote of the Bundestag about a foreign deployment. And right now only the UNSC has the unquestionable authority to provide such a mandate. Not the EU, not NATO and certainly not all these little ThinkTank critters.

                The CDU disgusts me in this case: They shit their collective pants when they ought to debate with their own constituency on defense matters and run away and now they're shedding crocodile tears for syrian civilians because Trump demands a political blowjob? If I were a Tonka pilot and got that order I'd tell the political slimesuckers to do it themselves. We have a Basic Law for a reason. Want it changed? Well, make the case in public and lobby for that. Oh, oops, I forgot! They won't do that because that could backfire at the ballot box. Craven idiots.


                • Originally posted by Hildemel View Post
                  Of course the SPD is against any action.
                  They are spineless idiots and their voter base consists of those germans most adamant about looking the other way regardless of how much suffering is being done to innocent people.
                  Same goes for WD of the Bundestag:
                  How dare those spineless idiots stick to Grundgesetz, right?


                  • Originally posted by csThor View Post
                    and now they're shedding crocodile tears for syrian civilians because Trump demands a political blowjob? If I were a Tonka pilot and got that order I'd tell the political slimesuckers to do it themselves.
                    from what ive heard its more about countering issues that would lead to instability of germanys national security, migration is germanys main problem and number one threat according to german interior minister seehofer, that is the priority and it will be the priority in future. this is the main concern and the transatlantic partnership is secondary, but still relevant, the bw has capabilities for these kind of missions without even having brand new fighters, thats obvious.
                    it will be interesting to see how this works out. the us, france and uk triangle is still monitoring the nw, so it wouldnt make a big difference when the german commitment serve different purposes at the end. well.. time will tell i guess.
                    Last edited by heiliger_geist; 12-09-2018, 10:33 AM.


                    • I would also like to see it done for Germanys security. If it has a noticeable impact as a prerequisite. What else for? For others ?? Bwahh

                      Would also be nice to tell soldiers you do not only pay billions for refugees you also die for them and not for your won country.

                      No wonder the BW has recruiting problems.

                      Dying for feel good hipsters

                      This whole migration larmoyance was anyway a super hypocritical event. Time tehy end this shit somehow. If any BW participation can aid to that the better.

                      We would lose fewer soldiers than civilians are killed here by refugees.

                      Other option throw them all out and rebuild the Bundesgrenzschutz.



                      • Brig. Gen. (ret.) Helmut Harff, who led NATO's advance into Kosovo, has died aged 80. Rest in peace, Sir.

                        So goes the man to whom we owe the following legendary exchange:

                        (Harff): You and your men shouldn't be here anymore. You have to leave within 30 minutes.

                        (Serbian officer): We need more time.

                        (Harff): No, you don't. You have 29 minutes.

                        (Serbian officer): One moment.

                        (Harff): There's no 'one moment'. That was an order.

                        (Serbian officer): But sir…!

                        (Harff): That's the end of the discussion. Now you have 28 minutes.


                        • Too bad he wasn't running things.

                          Seems like the kind of guy that could have gotten something done in the Ministry.


                          • Luftwaffe gets a new A321-200 for use as VIP jet for the Flugbereitschaft Bmvg, guess it will go to Squadron No. 2 in Cologne.



                            Flugbereitschaft BMVg
                            Basis (Base): Köln-Wahn, Berlin-Tegel
                            Staffeln (Squadrons): 3 (1. Lufttransportstaffel in Wahn mit A310, 2. Lufttransportstaffel in Wahn, 3. Lufttransportstaffel in Berlin Tegel mit AS 532U2)
                            Flugzeuge (Aircraft): Airbus A310 (5) Airbus A319CJ (2), Airbus A340-300 (2), Bombardier Global 5000 (4), Airbus A310 (5), Eurocopter AS 532U2 Cougar (3)
                            Kommandeur: Oberst Stefan Neumann (seit 26. Mai 2014)
                            Aufstellung (Commissioning): 1. April 1957

                            You can become
                            Lufttransportbegleitfeldwebel (short : military flight attendant)

                            Link with pics, the Luftwaffe even offers IFE on board their A310 PAX Version

                            Last edited by picanha; 24-09-2018, 04:40 AM.


                            • Yes, that's what we needed....another VIP transport.


                              • And more VIP stuff haha

                                German Eurofighters deployed in Ämari Air Base, Estonia, to augment NATO's Baltic Air Policing mission provided a training escort flight to the government aircraft of the German President en route to a visit to Finland.