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  • Originally posted by moosefoot View Post

    Well, I keep hearing that some Western IT companies have started to outsource systems developing to cheap programmers in Ukraine. I guess that's something. Obviously that only generates a fraction of what the big industries once did.

    Come think about it, a less than flattering comparison would be similar outsourcing of IT things to the Phillies or India or whatever.
    Congrats, about a thousand jobs at outsource rates and likely mostly concentrated in Kiev. Real game changer for the country.

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    • Originally posted by Mitleser1987 View Post
      2016 in review: Ukraine's main economic results
      - 2016 would be remembered by the growth of utility tariffs, devaluation of hryvnia, and the collapse of banks. Ukraine is conducting economic policy of survival

      Yup, the biggest and almost only growth industry in Ukraine, state borrowing. Really sad for a country that had so much potentially going for it to be brought to its knees like this. It will be like it for decades to come.

      Perhaps the only viable way forward is partition so that the reconstruction cost can be split west/east. Kind of divide it down the Dneiper.

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      • Tillerson said in the hearing that Ukraine should have received more help (weapons) while under Russian invasion and that things will be different under Trump.

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        • Originally posted by Jµµso View Post
          Tillerson said in the hearing that Ukraine should have received more help (weapons) while under Russian invasion and that things will be different under Trump.
          Agreed but he linked it specifically to the time of the change of status of Crimea, as that was the lost opportunity (blame it on the last lot tactic).

          Once they get their feet under the table, the new lot on DC will probably soon realise, as did the last lot, that its a lost cause. There will be hope for change at first as, being Americans, they will not comprehend how Kiev can be so corrupt and incompetent but reality will sink in.

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          • Quote from Sputnik but seems OK. Interesting door opening here.

            Secretary of State nominee Rex Tillerson said that the United States would only recognize Crimea rejoining Russia if broader agreements are reached acceptable to the Ukrainian people.

            WASHINGTON (Sputnik) — The United States would only recognize Crimea rejoining Russia if broader agreements are reached acceptable to the Ukrainian people, Secretary of State nominee Rex Tillerson said in his confirmation hearing at the US Senate Foreign Affairs Committee on Wednesday. "The only way that can ever happen is if there were some broader agreements that were satisfactory to Ukrainian people," Tillerson stated when asked whether the US can possibly recognize the annexation of Crimea. "Absent that, no, we would never recognize that."


            Read more: https://sputniknews.com/politics/201...ognize-crimea/

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            • A bit more from the incoming Secretary of State on Crimea/Russia. My highlight and I thought they did just that, but failed anyway.

              Tillerson talks tough on Crimea, Ukraine

              Tillerson was far less equivocal about Putin’s seizure of Crimea and said that were it up to him, the United States would have taken a far more hawkish stance toward Putin when it came to helping defend Ukraine’s territorial sovereignty.

              Sen. Ben Cardin (D-Md.) asked Tillerson whether Russia had a legal claim to the Crimean Peninsula, to which the Texan replied: “No sir. That was a taking of territory that was not theirs.”

              Asked what he would have done differently, Tillerson went even further, laying out ways the United States and Ukraine should have taken a far more aggressive stance to curb Russia’s creep into Ukrainian territory. He called that an “illegal action” and said that Russian leaders viewed the United States’s actions afterward as a “very weak response.”

              I would have recommended that Ukraine take all of the military assets that it had available, put them on the eastern border … [and] announce that the U.S. was going to provide them intelligence,” Tillerson said. “I think what Russia would have understood was a more robust response. 'You’ve taken Crimea, let’s stop here.'”

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              • Originally posted by JohninMK View Post
                ”'You’ve taken Crimea, let’s stop here.'”
                Confirmed Kremlin shill.

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                • Originally posted by Mitleser1987 View Post

                  Confirmed Kremlin shill.
                  You have quoted those words as being mine. Where did I say them?

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                  • Originally posted by JohninMK View Post
                    You have quoted those words as being mine. Where did I say them?
                    I am just quoting Tillerson.

                    He will fail, right?


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                    • I demand a survey of local Crimean sentiments before any actions are taken.

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                      • Originally posted by Mitleser1987 View Post

                        I am just quoting Tillerson.

                        He will fail, right?
                        OK, sorry.

                        He will succeed in getting the role, which is what the questions are all about, but, and I am often wrong, I don't see anything major happening re Ukraine over the next few months. There are many much more important issues for the new team to get their teeth into before they get anywhere near Ukraine.

                        By then, as I said above, they will have probably realised that Poro and co are incompetent, that any alternative to them is dire and even if gear was poured in it would not do much good. They could even start wondering what is the best way to sort it that will keep the new revitalised relationship with Russia on track.

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                        • Experts have calculated how many Russian soldiers are needed to occupy Ukraine: from 667,123 to 865,769.
                          It is too much for Russia, so no occupation is possible in the nearest future. Russia has only 999,998 soldiers.

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                          • Originally posted by vs1863 View Post
                            Experts have calculated how many Russian soldiers are needed to occupy Ukraine: from 667,123 to 865,769.
                            It is too much for Russia, so no occupation is possible in the nearest future. Russia has only 999,998 soldiers.
                            That is assuming that Putin won't engage in ethnical cleansing or counterinsurgency tactics such as mass slaughter and desecration and other forms of wanton violence as a means of waging psychological warfare.
                            Last edited by Gumiman; 12-01-2017, 04:50 AM. Reason: addition

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                            • Originally posted by Gumiman View Post
                              That is assuming that Putin won't engage in ethnical cleansing or counterinsurgency tactics such as mass slaughter and desecration and other forms of wanton violence as a means of waging psychological warfare.
                              Great idea. Yes, after ethnic cleansing and transporting survived to Idlib much less soldiers would be needed for occupation. Please do not prompt Putin this great solution.

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                              • Originally posted by Gumiman View Post
                                That is assuming that Putin won't engage in ethnical cleansing or counterinsurgency tactics such as mass slaughter and desecration and other forms of wanton violence as a means of waging psychological warfare.
                                LITERALLY HITLER!!!!111

                                Mass crimes reduce resistance and the need for occupation forces!!!!

                                *autistic screeching*
                                *vodka-drunken knife wielding intensifies*

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