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  • Marines’ mixing of men and women in combat experiment gets mixed results

    Marines’ mixing of men and women in combat experiment gets mixed results

    By Thomas Gibbons-Neff
    The Washington Post
    © September 9, 2015

    Over the past nine months, the Marine Corps tested a gender-integrated task force in both Twentynine Palms, Calif. and Camp Lejeune, N.C. in an attempt to gauge what the Marine Corps might look like with women in combat roles.

    According to a recent report in the Marine Corps Times, only a small number of women were left by the experiment’s conclusion -- two of the roughly two dozen that started -- mostly in part because of the physical and mental stress that comes with combat rolls. Both the men and women in the task force also reported a break down in unit cohesion with some voicing a perceived unequal treatment from their peers.
    Read the rest here - http://hamptonroads.com/2015/09/mari...478.1410618841

  • haze17
    replied
    https://www.marinecorpstimes.com/new...-title-marine/

    The Marines of India Company, 3rd Recruit Training Battalion, the first partially gender-integrated company in the Corps’ history, earned the title Marine on March 16 aboard the recruit depot Parris Island, South Carolina, according to Marine Corps officials.

    Wrapping up the 54-hour physical demanding event of recruit training known as the crucible and completing a culminating 9-mile hike, the Marines were handed Eagle, Globe and Anchors — marking the transformation from recruit to Marine.

    Leave a comment:


  • digrar
    replied
    22 years ago we had a mixed platoon upstairs from us. We did a fair bit of our training with them and grabbed the bulk of the males from that platoon when we went to the school of Infantry, to make up our IET platoon.
    No issues what so ever. We were kept fully occupied for 16 hours a day, there wasn't time for anyone to be fucking anyone, they did everything we did, albeit they had some longer run times, a lower wall to jump over and the fuckers cried at random moments (the girls, not the blokes). Mixed platoons at the recruit school were a relatively new concept for us back then, but even in those early days it wasn't an issue. It was probably more of an issue out in the Sig and Transport Squadrons, MP and catering platoons and medical units, where there was more down time and time for gender politics to be played out.

    Leave a comment:


  • JUNKHO
    replied

    /SNIP/ "And if it works and retains or improves combat effectiveness, great. If not, then it's time to reconsider", and hope that not too many were killed or injured in reaching the results.

    THE US MILITARY....leading the way in social engineering experimentation since 1776! yay..





    Leave a comment:


  • Ratamacue
    replied
    Originally posted by haze17 View Post
    0bama, Ashy Carter and Panetta get their wish. (along with the feminist's, who never served in the military nor will have their daughters, granddaughters, or nieces do so!)

    https://abcnews.go.com/beta-story-co...ry?id=60142958

    For the first time in its history, the Marine Corps will integrate female and male platoons during boot camp. Unlike the other services, the Marine Corps has not fully integrated women and men during recruit training. Instead, at Recruit Depot Parris Island in South Carolina, the first three battalions are all-male, while the fourth battalion is all-female.

    *While the change is not permanent, a Marine Corps spokesman told ABC News that the service "will certainly look at how the company performs in this model as we continually evaluate how we make Marines."
    You left out these key bits:

    "On January 5, 2019, 3rd Recruit Training Battalion aboard Marine Corps Recruit Depot Parris Island, will start their training cycle with one female platoon and five male platoons," the Marine Corps said in a statement Friday, first reported by ABC News.

    ...

    The female recruits will still be led by female Drill Instructors, but will live in barracks co-inhabited by their male counterparts.
    In other words, 3rd RTB has had a female platoon added, but that platoon is still segregated. They will live in the same barracks building as the rest of their company, but will have their own squad bay.

    I've argued before that the only way for this experiment to be truly successful in the end is 100% desegregation and equalization. That means the same living quarters, same expectation of privacy (or lack thereof), same PFT/CFT standards. Everyone who's part of the same unit needs to be treated exactly the same, and need to live together and learn to rely on each other. If there's one place that it can be determined if young Marines are mature enough to handle that, it's boot camp--biases and immaturity will either get trained out of them, or it won't.

    And if it works and retains or improves combat effectiveness, great. If not, then it's time to reconsider.

    Leave a comment:


  • haze17
    replied
    0bama, Ashy Carter and Panetta get their wish. (along with the feminist's, who never served in the military nor will have their daughters, granddaughters, or nieces do so!)

    https://abcnews.go.com/beta-story-co...ry?id=60142958

    For the first time in its history, the Marine Corps will integrate female and male platoons during boot camp. Unlike the other services, the Marine Corps has not fully integrated women and men during recruit training. Instead, at Recruit Depot Parris Island in South Carolina, the first three battalions are all-male, while the fourth battalion is all-female.

    *While the change is not permanent, a Marine Corps spokesman told ABC News that the service "will certainly look at how the company performs in this model as we continually evaluate how we make Marines."

    Leave a comment:


  • haze17
    replied
    *Editor’s note: The following is an opinion piece. The writer is not employed by Marine Corps Times and the views expressed here do not necessarily represent those of Marine Corps Times or its editorial staff.

    1. https://www.marinecorpstimes.com/new...qual-standard/

    Human nature resists change and that is why the military, specifically the Marine Corps, prides itself on adapting and overcoming.

    H'17-As you read the final paragraphs of the article, I am not sure who thought seeing a male Dress Uniform verses a female Dress Uniform thought that anyone was less a Marine. So I am not sure who that is to appeal too?

    In 2013, Secretary of the Navy Ray Mabus began discussing unisex uniform options. Soon after, a survey was launched in order to vote for an updated female dress blue coat that would more closely resemble the male uniform.

    2. https://www.marinecorpstimes.com/new..._source=clavis
    A concept that proved widely successful developed during the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan may soon have female Marines back in the Middle East alongside infantry troops.

    The Camp Pendleton, California-based 15th Marine Expeditionary Unit has created its own Female Engagement Team while underway, training a small group of women female Marines as advisers and liaisons uniquely poised to cut through cultural sensitivities surrounding gender. It's the first time the concept has been revived after the Marine Corps disbanded its last FETs in Afghanistan in 2012, when local troops the Afghan National Security Forces took on the mission. had taken over the women had done.

    Leave a comment:


  • haze17
    replied
    1. https://www.marinecorpstimes.com/new..._source=clavis

    A female Marine will get a second crack at Marine Corps Forces Special Operations Command in January.

    In September, the Marine corporal completed the first phase of MARSOC training but she did not score high enough to advance further, said command spokesman Maj. Nick Mannweiler. She is the second female Marine to attempt the training since all military occupational specialties were opened to women.

    2. https://www.marinecorpstimes.com/new...ess-blue-coat/

    Now that the Corps has a new female dress blue coat it plans to shelve the old one.

    In a message to the force posted on Thursday, the Corps said the female dress blue coat with white shirt and necktab would become “obsolete” by Sept. 30, 2022.

    Then-Secretary of the Navy Ray Mabus supported a more gender-neutral uniform and said he wanted uniforms that "don’t divide us as male or female, but rather unite us as sailors or Marines.” Heaven forbid we differentiate men from women!

    Leave a comment:


  • haze17
    replied
    Originally posted by Royal View Post
    Welcome back - nice to see you haven't lost your laser focus...
    Thank you sir.

    I would say my focus is no different than other members on here who have dozens of threads on President Trump, most of those being Anti-Trump in nature.

    Well, clearly no one in the previous administration (or at the Pentagon then) knew that women typically are not 5'10 - 6'2, weighting 170+ pounds...and in order to rectify this problem more tax $ has to be spent to equip say, 0.1 % of the force?

    1. https://www.militarytimes.com/news/y...ake-some-time/

    As more women join combat-coded units, they are finding that there’s not enough properly-fitted equipment or armor there to support them, defense appropriators told Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Gen. Joseph Dunford Wednesday. Since 2016, women have been able to join all combat units, and in the Army alone, more than 600 have joined since that ban was lifted.
    Last edited by haze17; 18-06-2018, 06:28 AM. Reason: Relocate link to another thread.

    Leave a comment:


  • downsizer
    replied
    Originally posted by Royal View Post
    Welcome back - nice to see you haven't lost your laser focus...
    Funniest thing I've read here in ages!

    Leave a comment:


  • Royal
    replied
    Welcome back - nice to see you haven't lost your laser focus...

    Leave a comment:


  • haze17
    replied
    From a few months ago, however an interesting article. Shocking! That droves of women are not pouring into the 'Corp to serve in the Infantry, Armor or Artillery? Who would have thought!?

    Perception is one thing, reality another!

    https://www.marinecorpstimes.com/new...emale-marines/

    Two years after the Defense Department ordered the Marine Corps to open all combat arms career fields to women, less than 100 women have successfully entered those previously male-only jobs.

    A total of 92 women are operating in a multitude of combat billets across the Corps, from rifleman to armored reconnaissance to combat engineers.

    NEEDED: MORE WOMEN (oh, really?)

    Commandant of the Marine Corps Gen. Robert B. Neller said in late January he wanted to grow the number women in the entire Marine Corps to 10 percent, up from today’s 8 percent female force. That would likely boost the number of women in the combat arms.

    H17; Uh, how are you going to do that? Gender-specific bonus? If someone has no interest in serving in the infantry, armor, or as a scout, then what incentive are you going to give to lure them? Whatever you do, they still have to pass entrance requirements and stay fit enough to serve in that billet.

    As I stated a few years back (before this 'train' left the station) most women serving now have no interest in front-line specialties, nor those who will enlist or commission in the future. (which this proves the TV talking heads wrong)

    As it stands now (by this article) 99.9% have no interest in serving in the infantry, armor, or scout, in which case, upon completion of their enlistment or resigning of commission, what civilian-sector occupation will they find? Serving in front-line billets has some aspects of team building, leadership forging, task accomplishment, etc. However does not certify an individual in the hiring process of todays private-sector market. Which Cyber, Medical, Dental, Transportation, and Communications do.

    The Marines Corps’ culture also has more intangible barriers to female integration, including a tightly-knit social fabric that values comradery and brotherhood amongst male Marines at the expense and sidelining of women, said Nora Bensahel, an expert on defense at American University.

    H'17 well, imagine that! A military unit, front-line formation that is to close with and kill the enemy (with bare hands, if need be!) no matter the weather, terrain, lack of sleep, food or water. And this group is suppose to be something else!? Like, what? A US college campus!? Seriously! Clearly Nora Bensahel has no idea why the US Marine Corp exists in the first place nor the 'culture' that develops from the enviroment it has to operate within.

    “The entire culture of the Marine Corps is a hyper-masculine culture,” said Bensahel.

    H'17, true. What is better then, the opposite? A hyper-feminine culture? I mean really... the rest of the article after this is so fairy tale in its suspension of reality, I wont spend time commenting on the nonsense printed.
    Last edited by haze17; 11-06-2018, 09:17 AM.

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  • Jumper
    replied
    Originally posted by Lord Helmet View Post
    I saw a couple of females at one of our company outposts during my 2010 Helmand tour, they were lesbians apparently so nothing crazy happened there. One was a total babe, it was hard not to stare. I ran into her years later at a bar and found out she married another woman. On my second tour in 2012 I saw two females from a female engagement team again at a company outpost. One turned out to be banging one of the EOD guys, it was pretty obvious they had something going on and it was kind of awkward in my opinion.

    None of the females I ever got to be around really helped much, in fact we always had to dedicate a security element for them and make sure they were in the rear of our forces when doing dismounted operations or any clearing operation. Hopefully my experiences are not the common denominator.
    It's can second that, in the end the unit is more busy with them then their own job.
    After adjusting the already lowerd standards, that a couple of times over any individual could join...the SAS...

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  • Lord Helmet
    replied
    I saw a couple of females at one of our company outposts during my 2010 Helmand tour, they were lesbians apparently so nothing crazy happened there. One was a total babe, it was hard not to stare. I ran into her years later at a bar and found out she married another woman. On my second tour in 2012 I saw two females from a female engagement team again at a company outpost. One turned out to be banging one of the EOD guys, it was pretty obvious they had something going on and it was kind of awkward in my opinion.

    None of the females I ever got to be around really helped much, in fact we always had to dedicate a security element for them and make sure they were in the rear of our forces when doing dismounted operations or any clearing operation. Hopefully my experiences are not the common denominator.

    Leave a comment:


  • haze17
    replied
    https://www.marinecorpstimes.com/off...al-here-s-how/

    For years, the Marine Corps has set fitness standards lower for women, a gesture of fairness based on the belief that women are inherently less strong and would be unable to meet the more rigorous requirements set for men.

    But now that double standard is *increasingly viewed by some as gender bias. There's mounting evidence, both inside and outside the Marine Corps, that female service members can actually meet the same standards as men for the force-wide benchmarks assessed by the Corps' Physical Fitness Test and the Combat Fitness Tests, known as the PFT and CFT.


    P.S.-do not forget to take your Calcium pills.

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