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  • You would really need a massive stick up your arse if you have something against M. Kemal. I don't mind the Erdoğan bit too much although a bit distasteful, but the Atatürk one has a lot of people "triggered".

    This is the second incident of something accidentally popping up on a NATO table. In the 90's I believe during Tansu Çiller's administration a map with "Kurdistan" was opened up in the presence of Turkish Officers. Its quite unnecessary. And its quite sad that it had to come to a point where NATO had to apologize to an individual like Erdoğan.

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    • It’s an embarrassing incident, no doubt, but methinks Erdo is blowing things out of proportions (as usual).

      Originally posted by BogT View Post
      Since Ataturk picture was also there, it indicates to me an anti-Turkish stunt rather than an anti-Erdogan one.
      Yeah, it's not exactly hard to figure out the likely background of the perp.

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      • Erdo is blowing it out of proportion on his end but I'm hearing strange things. There's talk of TSK officers who lost their commission who were allowed to be let into some NATO related stuff, in the presence of active TSK officers no less.

        Another incident I've heard of is back in May when a Turkish civilian who shouldn't have been allowed to be at a NATO Cyber Security Conference in Estonia was almost let in by another civilian, an American. Only through the pressure from the Estonian embassy in Ankara was it blocked. I don't know, NATO should have a look at all of their civilian personnel top to bottom and I mean it for Turkish civilian contractors too. They could very well be under the influence of bribery, who knows.

        What I'm afraid of is, this leading to a bickering between certain individuals in NATO with Erdoğan at the expense of TSK officers who dedicated years working at NATO. Everyone should tread lightly.

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        • Talking about Turkey:

          US official: If Turkey buys Russian systems, they can’t plug into NATO tech
          DUBAI, United Arab Emirates — If Turkey moves forward with its buy of a Russian air defense system, it will not be permitted to plug into NATO technology, and further action may be forthcoming that could affect the country’s acquisition or operation of the F-35, a top Air Force official said Wednesday.


          Turkey has reportedly finalized a deal with Russia for the S-400, an advanced anti-aircraft missile system. According to a Nov. 12 Reuters report, Turkish Defense Minister Nurettin Canikli claimed that it had made an order for the missiles and further terms of the agreement were “just details now.”


          If true, the development could have a drastic effect on Turkey’s military cooperation with the rest of NATO, which fears that Turkey is moving away from democratic norms and is fostering a closer relationship with powers such as Russia and China.


          https://www.defensenews.com/digital-...nto-nato-tech/

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          • Northern Strike 2017:


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            • NATO Deputy Secretary General inaugurates new NATO Liaison Office in Moldova

              peaking at a joint press conference with Moldovan Prime Minister Pavel Filip, in Chișinău, Moldova the Deputy Secretary General said: “Today is the culmination of almost 25 years of partnership between NATO and Moldova. The partnership we have benefits NATO, and it benefits Moldova.” The office will be staffed by civilians and will help support dialogue and cooperation between NATO and Moldova.
              ...
              NATO fully respects Moldova’s neutrality, independence and sovereignty, but neutrality does not mean that we cannot be strong partners,” the NATO Deputy Secretary General said.
              What they don't say is that the (pro Russian to the point of being their puppet) president of the Republic of Moldavia is against this. For instance he blocked Moldavian armed forces from participating to a joint exercise with NATO that involved a lot of partner countries (included Serbia and Ukraine), after all the preparation were made.

              The distribution of power is kinda strange in the Republic of Moldavia, the government having a large say in military affairs. But it does show that NATO is taking a more active approach regardless of the uncertainty in this country.

              Maintaining uncertainty is something that traditionally advantages Russia, which is why I'm happy that NATO moved forward with this.

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                • Wall Street Journal had a small article today on SecDef Mattis being the latest in a long line of people in his position to say Europe under spending on defense.
                  WSJ notes spending up about 3% but adjusting for inflation actually down 4% compared with 2010.

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                  • Video from the Talvelaager 2018 exercise with troops from Denmark, Estonia, and UK:

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                    • Here's a great NATO story!

                      Turkish minehunter finds historic mine in Black Sea near Constanta, Romania, during a joint NATO exercise lead by a British Commander.

                      If you stop and think for two seconds of all the things that had to take place for the previous sentence to be true, all of the implications and the politics (or in spite of the latter; recent and in the past), it's quite amazing.

                      A Turkish Navy minehunter deployed to NATO’s Standing Mine Countermeasures Group Two (SNMCMG2) discovered a historic mine during routine training in the Black Sea on February 7.
                      ...
                      SNMCMG2 was conducting mine countermeasure training with the Romanian Navy just off the Romanian coast near Constanta when the historic ordinance was discovered. The area in question is shown on maritime charts as a formally mined area and this means that this is likely to be an historic mine.
                      ...
                      “Finding this historic mine demonstrates NATO’s capability to find uncharted mines in the Black Sea,” said Royal Navy Commander Justin Hains, Commander of SNMCMG2. “We work hard to practice our skills to ensure safe sea lanes. Identification and disposal of historic ordnance is just part of the mission.”
                      ...
                      The task group consists of the flagship HMS Enterprise, TCG Akcay and ROS Lupu Dinescu.

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                      • NATO defense spending goes up for third year in a row
                        BRUSSELS — NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg said Thursday that alliance members increased their defense spending in 2017 for the third consecutive year, amid complaints from President Trump that only a handful of the 29 allies are meeting their pledges.

                        Overall, NATO countries — not including the United States — spent an estimated 1.45 percent of their annual economic output on defense spending last year, still short of the 2 percent goal agreed by national leaders in 2014 as a 10-year target.
                        https://www.washingtonpost.com/world...=.e5a506158f5c

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                        • NATO CHIEF: ALLIANCE WON'T DEFEND ISRAEL IN WAR WITH IRAN

                          https://m.jpost.com/Middle-East/Iran...th-Iran-558987

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                          • Originally posted by Moro View Post
                            NATO CHIEF: ALLIANCE WON'T DEFEND ISRAEL IN WAR WITH IRAN

                            https://m.jpost.com/Middle-East/Iran...th-Iran-558987
                            Was this ever under question? Article 5 applies only to members. There's no surprised here.

                            Dialogue and cooperation on security and counter-terrorism issues, as part of NATO partnership program, does not come with an Article 5 type commitment.

                            Mind you, this does not mean that NATO countries cannot offer help, it just means that it would not be through NATO.

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                            • Uy sorry, and I thought they were united against the evil Muslim hhh

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                              • Originally posted by BogT View Post
                                Mind you, this does not mean that NATO countries cannot offer help, it just means that it would not be through NATO.
                                The US is the only relevant global military power in NATO and the US under Trump will definitely back Israel in a war with Iran. Funny how all NATO secretary generals think that what they say bears any weight rather than being the comic relief for the president of the US.

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