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  • Originally posted by north44 View Post
    The IS is literally re-writing every single military manual.

    A group composed of light infantry in the open desert, besieged in a small pocket, no supply lines, scarse ammunition for outdated light Soviet made weaponary, no heavy weapons, under constant fire by advanced aircraft and artillery... holding groud even for more than one year and finally breaking the siege.
    By US military standards, basically everyone would deserve at least a Silver Star for military gallantry and probably tens of Medals of Honor.

    Savages... but what an impressive fighting force.
    You should'nt overestamate their enemies, they made the Calipates expansion possible.

    Assad & co were more busy with surviving, so why would they overstretch their forces when they can ignore Daesh, it made more sence for them to take care of the moderate groups.

    The "moderates" rather had a love/hate relationship with Daesh if you ask me.
    Many "moderates" liked the idiology from the begining on.
    Some groups started to fight Daesh because they would have lost foreign support otherwise.

    The neighboring countries had issues with the Baath party or had enough issues themselfs.
    I mean Daesh had done enough business.....
    Open borders, enough pictures with Turkish soldiers next to deash positions.
    It didn't gave the impression that all had the intention to destroy deash..
    The Turks rather had those Black flags then the Yellow ones.

    Next to that im pretty sure they sertainly had their logistics arranged, enough vids that show well equiped beardies.
    They must had multiple "allies" to make it all possible, they would't have been able without the support of external parties.
    Their IT/intel capabilities, and their general organisation was very impressive.
    I don't believe they developed all of that on their own in a few years. Never..

    OIR is pretty effective training their enemies, but how much effort did the west took to destroy Daesh?
    The West is well able to conduct operations that would have been devastating from the start, yes the Russian intervention seemed effective.. Is the west unable to do that?
    The West/Israel had their own intrests, they did'nt wanted to bother their enemies enemy.

    Western militaries would tear deash at it's height apart in a matter of days.
    Meatgrinder 2.0.

    Hezbollah and their Iranian allies seemed very effective because others were not..
    I'm not telling they aren't a potent force, they are compared to all other combatants around.

    I'm impressed, but not as you are by Daesh.

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    • Well, their enemies are the usual shit-o-armies you find in the ME with the only difference they are also facing a coalition air campaign that is proving somehow ineffective.
      I don't want to overestimate their enemies, but you have to admit they do outstand compared to everything you find in the region (apart of the similarly effective Houthis fighters in Yemen).

      Probably they are even more effective than several US/NATO fighting troops under the same circumstances.... Imagine a single US Army light infantry division without Air Cavarly, USAF, US Navy, anything bigger than few outdated field guns, armed with some AK-47s, isolated, in the open desert... would they last the same? How long before they collapse as an homogeneous fighting force? 15% of casualties? 20%?...

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      • Originally posted by north44 View Post
        Well, their enemies are the usual shit-o-armies you find in the ME with the only difference they are also facing a coalition air campaign that is proving somehow ineffective.
        I don't want to overestimate their enemies, but you have to admit they do outstand compared to everything you find in the region (apart of the similarly effective Houthis fighters in Yemen).

        Probably they are even more effective than several US/NATO fighting troops under the same circumstances.... Imagine a single US Army light infantry division without Air Cavarly, USAF, US Navy, anything bigger than few outdated field guns, armed with some AK-47s, isolated, in the open desert... would they last the same? How long before they collapse as an homogeneous fighting force? 15% of casualties? 20%?...
        It takes years to create a good running batalion, even if the blueprints, expertise and training programs are availeble.
        To develope and create a state and a military in a few years is impossible if it's according to NATO standards..because it's way to complex.
        They sertainly are hardcore, and that's the main reason why they could shock the world.
        But i believe they got at least some help, and they were'nt isolated as we would have hopend.
        The West never went in for the kill, but they needed to give their populations the idea that they wanted to take them out.
        Western militaries are allmost sertainly superior in all means of combat.

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        • Originally posted by north44 View Post
          The IS is literally re-writing every single military manual.

          A group composed of light infantry in the open desert, besieged in a small pocket, no supply lines, scarse ammunition for outdated light Soviet made weaponary, no heavy weapons, under constant fire by advanced aircraft and artillery... holding groud even for more than one year and finally breaking the siege.
          By US military standards, basically everyone would deserve at least a Silver Star for military gallantry and probably tens of Medals of Honor.

          Savages... but what an impressive fighting force.
          Wachu talkin' bout Willis?

          Comment


          • Lol! Isis survived there because the Syrian army is cockblocked by the us to finish the job and the SDF is just not that enthusiastic, plus I suspect everyone including the us is fine with Isis surviving there because it is the one excuse they have for meddling in Syrian politics. That's the reason marco08, oops, north44

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            • Originally posted by Nansouty View Post
              I just stumbled upon this entertaining bit upon Mr Higgins and Bellingcat. This puts into perspective the seriousness of his investigations and the credit they deserve to be awarded :



              Lots of captured tweets by Higgins to support the claim Now, if I may try my hand at cracking a joke, I'll say this was rather a shaming witness.
              Well so far for the "independant journalist analysis group"
              Funded by the NED and Atlantic Council
              That's says enough for me

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              • ''IS with some AK47''

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                • Originally posted by Fred333 View Post
                  Lol! Isis survived there because the Syrian army is cockblocked by the us to finish the job and the SDF is just not that enthusiastic, plus I suspect everyone including the us is fine with Isis surviving there because it is the one excuse they have for meddling in Syrian politics. That's the reason marco08, oops, north44
                  Well not really. It's not just "ze West" and their local SDF allies' fault, even if I agree they do bear a lot or responsabilities for this ourstanding IS surival.
                  This is just cheap Russian propaganda.
                  I see a bunch of black areas totally surrounded by the glorious Syrian/Russian/Iranian forces. I don't see anything better happening in these areas.

                  No matter what you say, but the facts stand: a few beardies are surviving in the desert in face of the whole world. You can hate them, but you cannot deny it's really interesting how modern armies are unable to deal with this kind of asymmetrical forces.

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                  • Originally posted by north44 View Post

                    Well not really. It's not just "ze West" and their local SDF allies' fault, even if I agree they do bear a lot or responsabilities for this ourstanding IS surival.
                    This is just cheap Russian propaganda.
                    I see a bunch of black areas totally surrounded by the glorious Syrian/Russian/Iranian forces. I don't see anything better happening in these areas.

                    No matter what you say, but the facts stand: a few beardies are surviving in the desert in face of the whole world. You can hate them, but you cannot deny it's really interesting how modern armies are unable to deal with this kind of asymmetrical forces.

                    Well , as i see it there are no real modern armies fighting. I am sure that a couple armored dvisions on the technological level of late WW2 would pretty much flatten every local force in Syria(with proper logistical support of course).

                    Also to hunt down highly mobile jihadist in a desert you simply need the numbers.

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                    • From what I've read the SDF forces that were assaulting the ISIS pocket were primarily local arabs from the neighboring region. Not particularly experienced YPG fighters with years of combat operations. From what I've read on various news sources as well as fighters Instragram posts, Kurdish YPG units are being redirected to the area of operations to go on the offensive again and replace the arabs who were doing poorly.

                      It looks very bad that the moment air support disappears the local ground combat element of the SDF melts away ahead of a counter attack. US air support won't always be there... hoping the YPG units who will launch the next offensive can finally clear the area. If it was up to me I'd reinforce the area with a Marine Expeditionary unit reinforced and would have a battalion worth of Marines do the clearing, along with the SDF guys... but that sure won't be happening. Sure we can fight a war of attrition, eventually the bombs will kill enough ISIS guys. However, that is just prolonging the pain. Let the Iraqis push closer too, they got the manpower and equipment to at least seize the Baghuz area.

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                      • Interesting.
                        I believe someone might have alluded to this previously. By the looks of it, no doubt Israel would have been taking the opportunity to test its capabilities against the S-300.

                        Greece holds joint air force exercise with Israel

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                        • Pretty obvious conclusion to end the thread with. Hope the point is taken.
                          https://twitter.com/RALee85/status/1060259464748642309

                          Although it was initially a question of whether this would be a largely symbolic transfer, 3 battalions of 8 TELS of the S-300PMU-2 with its regimental radar/CPs is a significant improvement in Syria's air defense system. This isn't just symbolic.

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                          • What I find strange is why IAF would NEED to train against S300. They've long been the masters of countering it and operating against it. Just to point out, when Cyprus bought S300's back in the late 90's, it was the IAF that trained Turkish Air Force pilots to counter it. Of course afterwards the Greeks took it and transferred the system to Crete instead.

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                            • Originally posted by thanamestolga View Post
                              What I find strange is why IAF would NEED to train against S300. They've long been the masters of countering it and operating against it. Just to point out, when Cyprus bought S300's back in the late 90's, it was the IAF that trained Turkish Air Force pilots to counter it. Of course afterwards the Greeks took it and transferred the system to Crete instead.

                              Because: 1) Training is better than no training and 2) "masters of countering it" is PR propaganda for the sheeple [ you are in the military, you should be well aware what chest-beating/patriotic propaganda sounds like ] - modern warfare has too many variables and unknowns for anything to be a "sure thing" and for anyone to be described as a "master" at anything.

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                              • Originally posted by north44 View Post
                                No matter what you say, but the facts stand: a few beardies are surviving in the desert in face of the whole world. You can hate them, but you cannot deny it's really interesting how modern armies are unable to deal with this kind of asymmetrical forces.
                                They would have been smashed long ago if not for ISIS CAS striking PMU and SAA units - The only reason these pockets exist is so the United States has an excuse to keep fucking around in Syria.

                                Any brainlet should have figured that out in 2016.

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