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  • I think Turkey is daring the Syrian Military to fire on them so they can return fire, along with the help of France, Germany and other Nato members.

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    • Originally posted by heiliger_geist View Post
      as flamming_python once pointed out.. no nation has friends, only interests.. and that counts for everyone it seems. but im still able to sense some common interests for those who have an influence in idlib..
      Did I say that?

      I meant that it was the British that once said that.

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      • Originally posted by AAMC View Post
        The Kurds have been one, tiny bright spot, however intermittent, in a war otherwise dominated by criminals, despots and head-chopping zealots. For the most part, they have my sympathies.

        But when it comes to a Kurdish state - the question is, what kind of state would it be? And, as JohninMK alludes to above, from whence would its lands be procured?

        There are many Arabs living in the Kurdish-held areas of Syria. The relations of the Kurdish authorities with them is already chilly, to say the least. What future would they have in an ethnically-based Kurdish state?

        Then, of course, there's the issue of what's lying under the ground. The Kurds are currently in possession of many of Syria's oilfields. The regime holds areas containing most of the country's people, but few of its resources; the Kurds have few people, but most of the resources. Good fortune for the Kurds, perhaps, but that kind of fortune can only be bought with the misery of everyone else.
        I remember hearing that there was a volunteer Brit who went to join the YPG as a sniper.

        He fought with them until they gave orders to cleanse out whole villages of people.

        I don't think the YPG are neccesserily more moral than the rest of the factions. They perform ethnic cleansing in disputed areas, grab territory that has no Kurds at all but has Oil/Gas in it which is just as important, I'm sure their rule in Syria is somewhat less than democratic, etc...
        The important thing though is that they're not Islamists, and that they're the only non-government faction not currently fighting with the government. They have a kind of Cold War between one another. They also seem to be fairly pragmatic, which means a deal can be made with them.

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        • Originally posted by Centurion17 View Post
          I think Turkey is daring the Syrian Military to fire on them so they can return fire, along with the help of France, Germany and other Nato members.
          I don’t think you can invoke NATO’s collective defense articles when you’ve invaded the country that fired on you. If Turkey finds itself in a shooting war with Syrian, Iranian, and Russian forces in Syria, I think they will have to go it alone.

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          • i see some sort of axis of the willing so there is no need for some articles and doctrines. but that doesnt mean that a common interest of russia iran and turkey is non-existent.. and that doesnt mean that turkish military power is non-existent when it comes to turkeys backyard, and that doesnt mean that you arent allowed to speculate about wrong things. the beef between israel and iran / russia and the us is probably much greater than a potential beef between the astana participants.

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            • Originally posted by heiliger_geist View Post
              i see some sort of axis of the willing so there is no need for some articles and doctrines. but that doesnt mean that a common interest of russia iran and turkey is non-existent.. and that doesnt mean that turkish military power is non-existent when it comes to turkeys backyard, and that doesnt mean that you arent allowed to speculate about wrong things. the beef between israel and iran / russia and the us is probably much greater than a potential beef between the astana participants.
              Sure, the issue of a Turkish Armed Forces presence in northern Syria is pretty minor. I think the main area of disagreement is about who there is a terrorist and who isn't.

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              • Originally posted by flamming_python View Post

                Sure, the issue of a Turkish Armed Forces presence in northern Syria is pretty minor. I think the main area of disagreement is about who there is a terrorist and who isn't.
                Well there isn’t a Russia vs Israel issue. I don’t even know if there is really a Russia vs America issue, I don’t know if we know what we want to do now that ISIS is effectively done.

                Obviously there is an Israel vs Iran issue. Also, for the last seven years, there has been a Turkey vs Iran issue. Russia’s interest here is purely attached to keeping Assad in power.

                Whether or not losing Idlib or Afrin is minor will be determined by Russia and Iran. So long as Turkey keeps its militants in line, they will probably be ok with it.

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                • Originally posted by Lord Helmet View Post
                  The US clearly states chemical weapons use by Assad will lead to more US strikes on Syrian forces attacking Idlib. Can't the Syrians just use conventional weapons and get the killing done the old fashion way? The US won't get involved. Win/win for all. Give guarantees that no chem weapons will be used and have Russian forces ensure that's the case.. invite international observers and have them attach to air bases and arty units. Done deal, keep on killing.
                  US already attacked Syrian forces several times without chemical weapons usage. The Nikki Haley threats have seemingly extended to conventional weapon usage.. or even the threat of them in civilian areas. The attempt to build an anti Rusiia-Syria coalition is obvious in it's intent - prevent Syria regaining it's territory.
                  EU doesn't want any attacks on Idlib.... one real reason is our NATO pal Turkey will just open the floodgates for some more cultural enrichment.
                  Originally posted by Alcaldemb View Post

                  I don’t think you can invoke NATO’s collective defense articles when you’ve invaded the country that fired on you. If Turkey finds itself in a shooting war with Syrian, Iranian, and Russian forces in Syria, I think they will have to go it alone.
                  You don't need to invoke anything, UK already said it stands ready to assist Turkey (dates back to Turkish shoot down of Russian aircraft in Syria) and you can see the more recent attempt to get bundeswher on board for some more attacks. If the coalition can be put in place then it can act proactively as well as (quickly) reatively.
                  Trying to drag an coalition together post action is the hard road.



                  Tulsi Gabbard calls out talk on terrorists on 9/11 vs the realpolitik of confronting Russia/Syria./Iran
                  https://youtu.be/0MGlU1EJ9XM
                  Last edited by Tea drinker; 14-09-2018, 11:05 AM.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Tea drinker View Post
                    US already attacked Syrian forces several times without chemical weapons usage. The Nikki Haley threats have seemingly extended to conventional weapon usage.. or even the threat of them in civilian areas. The attempt to build an anti Rusiia-Syria coalition is obvious in it's intent - prevent Syria regaining it's territory.
                    EU doesn't want any attacks on Idlib.... one real reason is our NATO pal Turkey will just open the floodgates for some more cultural enrichment.

                    You don't need to invoke anything, UK already said it stands ready to assist Turkey (dates back to Turkish shoot down of Russian aircraft in Syria) and you can see the more recent attempt to get bundeswher on board for some more attacks. If the coalition can be put in place then it can act proactively as well as (quickly) reatively.
                    Trying to drag an coalition together post action is the hard road.



                    Tulsi Gabbard calls out talk on terrorists on 9/11 vs the realpolitik of confronting Russia/Syria./Iran
                    https://youtu.be/0MGlU1EJ9XM
                    it was really interesting to see people like gabbard, and others like syrian government officials using the 9/11 tragedy to somehow defend a mafia like regime masquerading as a government that protects all of its citizens. Heres the situation with Idlib, even though its mostly ruled by a myriad of POS torturers like HTS, and other militant groups similar in tone, there are close to million people that have fled from other parts of the country. This of course includes Journalists, Doctors, activists, that face a fate of torture, followed by death. If the Syrian gov. will question or detain people for social media posts, what happens if someone is pictured at a protest, with an FSA flag, etc, that remains clear. There are tens of thousands of people missing for seven years after detained throughout various points in this conflict.

                    The systematic sweeps and crackdowns that follow Sy. Gov. recapturing of territory , is something even regular people get caught up in. Imagine a neighborhood gets raided and innocent people are in the vicinity, guess what, they get taken too. These mass arrest campaigns are large in scope, and systematic torture and rape that occurs with these campaigns is something that strikes huge fear in any person really that lives under militant or opposition rule. look at the notices recently issued by the sy. gov itself, which i was bit surprised to see. However, Sy. Gov will not state how the victims died, nor is there any sign of a body after the Sy gov. will make official notice.

                    There are thousands of these notifications, they are openly admitting this. And that doesnt count the amount of people killed in massacres where they killed in their homes, or in the general communities. They have the firepower, the massive police state apparatus, to able to kill really an amount of people not seen since maybe bosnia or rwanda. Mass extermination of people, just like the Nazis and Ottoman Empire.

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                    • Originally posted by Stuja View Post
                      There are thousands of these notifications, they are openly admitting this. And that doesnt count the amount of people killed in massacres where they killed in their homes, or in the general communities. They have the firepower, the massive police state apparatus, to able to kill really an amount of people not seen since maybe bosnia or rwanda. Mass extermination of people, just like the Nazis and Ottoman Empire.
                      Do you have any sort of evidence for this aside from beardie claims?

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                      • Originally posted by Stuja View Post


                        There are thousands of these notifications, they are openly admitting this. And that doesnt count the amount of people killed in massacres where they killed in their homes, or in the general communities. They have the firepower, the massive police state apparatus, to able to kill really an amount of people not seen since maybe bosnia or rwanda. Mass extermination of people, just like the Nazis and Ottoman Empire.
                        No not like the nazis and the ottoman empire. The syrian government is not genociding a specific kind of people.

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                        • Originally posted by Fred333 View Post

                          No not like the nazis and the ottoman empire. The syrian government is not genociding a specific kind of people.

                          Yeah, only those who refuse to worship Putin and Proxy Bashar. Totally insignificant....

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                          • Originally posted by nemipuka View Post


                            Yeah, only those who refuse to worship Putin and Proxy Bashar. Totally insignificant....
                            You and your curious case of banging on about worshiping Bashar, or the cult of Assad, or whatever. I wonder why you seem to be so particularly wound up about this pseudo-religious aspect, which (big-man worship) is very common in the ME (Atatürk, Öcalan, just about every dictator there ever). Are you perhaps offended that some people have the temerity to not believe in your deity? I call projecting.

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                            • Originally posted by Fred333 View Post

                              No not like the nazis and the ottoman empire. The syrian government is not genociding a specific kind of people.
                              I believe the Iranians have been actively displacing Syrian Sunnis and permanently resettling Shi’a militiamen there. Not comparable to the Nazis, but certainly similar to the wars of the former Yugoslavia.

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                              • Originally posted by Alcaldemb View Post

                                I believe the Iranians have been actively displacing Syrian Sunnis and permanently resettling Shi’a militiamen there. Not comparable to the Nazis, but certainly similar to the wars of the former Yugoslavia.
                                That this happens here and there might be possible, but an overall sunni genocide is simply in line with the KSA sponsored western MSM Sunni-myth, which is deconstructed here:

                                https://warontherocks.com/2016/08/wa...yria-and-iraq/
                                https://warontherocks.com/2016/08/wa...e-east-undone/

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