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  • Originally posted by Akril View Post

    What PR? PR of the guy who spotted it?
    There's not a single word of the aircraft in Syria. We wouldn't even know it there or was there if not for the spotter.
    Now, of course, after a week or month of denial Russian officials would admit it there and turn it to PR.
    The thing would drop a bomb or two at the pocket near Damascus and silently fly home unintroduced otherwise.

    PR is the 4 F-22 deployed in Germany with trumpets and "we show'em ruskies" circus.
    at least the F22's are real

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    • Originally posted by CanisMajor View Post
      really? didnt knew russia has a temperature variation of that of an actual desert....
      Temperature deviation between 0 and 15000 m of height is 90celsius. You do not need to go to Syria for fast temperature deviation. Just take off in south Russia, go to 150000 and fly north. Results are even better if you do that on sunrise or sunset.

      Sending Su 57 in Syria is just PR move, they do not need prototypes there but fully operational aircrafts.

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      • Originally posted by blackcatnursery View Post

        makes me laugh that the russians are wetting themselves over an airframe that is still not in full production and they can only buy 12 for delivery sometime in the next decade. F22 first flew over 20 YEARS AGO - and its taken the russians 20 years to come anywhere close - the yanks have 180 airframes - do the math

        Don't you wonder what the yanks have been spending all those $ on over the past 20 years - pretty sure a SU57 would be no match

        Yanks have just announced their spending plans for the next few years - retirement for the B1 and B2 - replaced by B21's - no other country has come close to the B2 yet and the yanks are already moving onto something better - also fighter cover for the B21 with a very long range F22 type plane is muted

        Russia - broke paper tiger - just stick to bombing hospitals and bakeries
        This last sentence is great summarization of your post. Yes that is true all that Russia can do is to bomb hospitals and bakeries.

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        • I understand discussion of the Wagner incident is sensitive but i dont think anyone is gloating. I believe it might be a quite important event.

          I have tried to look at the event from first principle basis. We can even disregard the amount of casualties and just say "some died".

          I have yet to encounter a nice clean narrative which makes the event fall in line with any of the major narratives pushed by any side or any larger narrative as to the function of states and the Russian state in particular. It points to some narratives which are quite concerning and i really dont know what to make of it.

          The USA has been silent as can be on the incident and the same goes for Russia. It is as if the surface cracked a bit and revealed some of the "machinery".

          The Russian narrative is "they are private entity and did the attack as mercenaries prompted by local warlords" even that narrative just raises more questions none of which are particularly pleasant.

          I would really like to hear some speculation as to what actually was the motivation, justification for the operation. Were they operating for some other power hierarchy within Russia?

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          • Originally posted by Nyl View Post
            So from the above we can conclude that Su57 will be flying only in areas that are within the range of a quick air raid or cruise missile strike
            If one went down it would get a lot of American air cover

            I would be more worried about someone flying it to Israel or Iraq - and claiming an X Prize

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            • Originally posted by blackcatnursery View Post

              makes me laugh that the russians are wetting themselves over an airframe that is still not in full production and they can only buy 12 for delivery sometime in the next decade. F22 first flew over 20 YEARS AGO - and its taken the russians 20 years to come anywhere close - the yanks have 180 airframes - do the math

              Don't you wonder what the yanks have been spending all those $ on over the past 20 years - pretty sure a SU57 would be no match

              Yanks have just announced their spending plans for the next few years - retirement for the B1 and B2 - replaced by B21's - no other country has come close to the B2 yet and the yanks are already moving onto something better - also fighter cover for the B21 with a very long range F22 type plane is muted

              Russia - broke paper tiger - just stick to bombing hospitals and bakeries
              are you seriously comparing a plane that is already flying with a prototype?

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              • Originally posted by blackcatnursery View Post

                If one went down it would get a lot of American air cover

                I would be more worried about someone flying it to Israel or Iraq - and claiming an X Prize

                You're a lot more interesting when you aren't doing immature trolling......

                Firstly we don't know as of yet the exact reasons for the PAK-FA/Su-57 deployment in Syria as it hasn't been stated officially....

                Secondly tomorrow is defender of the fatherland day in Russia, which *could* suggest these examples may first of all be part of those commemorations, the next probable step is some testing which could be as simple as environmental or further more some avionics and weapons testing...

                After this could come the possibility that there is an intended statement or international aspect of the deployment, either signalling or else with other nations in the region.... It could indeed be PR to bring attention to its new product that is increasingly growing mature....

                The Russians haven't thus far 'wet their pants' about it, Western Media has likewise covered it pretty heavily so hardly a russian phenomenon...


                There are of course questions about its deployment that could be interesting (though one needs to avoid hyperbole)

                -Reliability of its Systems and the Territory in which worst case scenario - it experiences trouble....
                -Potential susceptibility of compromising details of the Aircraft in a heavily monitored and close proximity environment
                -Overall maturity of PAK-FA/Su-57 program..
                -Military/Political Ramifications...


                All your other crap about B-21s and other proposed programs are the rants of someone whom is either desperately trolling or just plain desperate to downplay anything......
                Simply put those Aircraft Programs are neither nor there right now as far as reality stands so aren't exactly relevant, likewise the Su-57 program isn't necessarily something to get ones knickers in a twist about vis a vis Syria for example - and many russian sources aren't doing this, if anything some are questioning the rationale...

                We simply can wait and see

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                • Originally posted by Nyl View Post
                  So from the above we can conclude that Su57 will be flying only in areas that are within the range of a quick air raid or cruise missile strike
                  Ghouta, weapon testing, operational manuals for flight schools. With A-50U back in Syria we may expect some long range launches. Pity there will be no footage.



                  Originally posted by blackcatnursery View Post

                  at least the F22's are real
                  And the Su-57 is not? Then what is it in this video, a flying saucer?

                  Honestly, never understand Brits.
                  US is the reason you lost your precious empire. They essentially bankrupted you, stole your colonies and finished you off at Suez. They even sided with Soviets to dislodge you despite the ongoing Cold War animosity. Yet you are here, the faithful dog, protecting precious toys of your master that you never were allowed to have.

                  Keep barking.

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                  • To give you am idea how f'cked up the human race can be . Translated posts by pro - Assad crowd , from a woman no less : To Syrians living in Ghouta: "fuck your your children, the sons of whores...By the will of Allah, you will see them burn in front of their eyes, may you see your daughters get raped right in front of you " -https://mobile.twitter.com/THE_47th/status/966552108609794049/photo/1

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                    • Another one to give you idea how messed up these posts are : " In Ghouta, I think they should first hunt all the women & rape them, then pour gasoline & burn them all, then they should wipe out all of Ghouta and leave nothing alive " -https://mobile.twitter.com/THE_47th/status/966632711426334720/photo/1

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                      • Originally posted by Akril View Post

                        And the Su-57 is not? Then what is it in this video, a flying saucer?

                        Honestly, never understand Brits.
                        US is the reason you lost your precious empire. They essentially bankrupted you, stole your colonies and finished you off at Suez. They even sided with Soviets to dislodge you despite the ongoing Cold War animosity. Yet you are here, the faithful dog, protecting precious toys of your master that you never were allowed to have.

                        Keep barking.
                        Video is of the preproduction test versions - no point of reference - it could have been shot from my back yard

                        It has been reported that only one of the prototypes has the new engines - not sure they would risk that one

                        As I said earlier until we get some decent photos from a reputable source then it may as well be a UFO

                        Woof Woof, we have our own - and as for Empire we blame the Jerman's (and why should we be responsible for running everything properly in any case) - we only go and help the yanks as we like a bit of a world tour every so often, and they nearly speak english


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                        • Originally posted by blackcatnursery View Post

                          Video is of the preproduction test versions - no point of reference - it could have been shot from my back yard

                          It has been reported that only one of the prototypes has the new engines - not sure they would risk that one

                          As I said earlier until we get some decent photos from a reputable source then it may as well be a UFO

                          Woof Woof, we have our own - and as for Empire we blame the Jerman's (and why should we be responsible for running everything properly in any case) - we only go and help the yanks as we like a bit of a world tour every so often, and they nearly speak english

                          Re Taranis.... I miss that 2495 guy, he was the dogs for secret aero stuff...what ever happened to him? Snatched off the street like an unattended puppy?

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                          • Originally posted by blackcatnursery View Post

                            Woof Woof, we have our own BAE Systems Taranis - Wikipedia
                            I see, Russians moved forward with their development, you stuck with nothigburger and now desperate. What can I say, life's cruel.
                            Now, back to Syrian Civil War, will we?

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                            • Even Zero Hedge of all sites is questioning the value of this "deployment"

                              https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-...fighters-syria

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                              • Originally posted by Tea drinker View Post
                                Re Taranis.... I miss that 2495 guy, he was the dogs for secret aero stuff...what ever happened to him? Snatched off the street like an unattended puppy?
                                went on a journey, not been in touch recently - he used to send me loads of stuff off forum - god only knows where he got some of it from as it was always months ahead of anyone else - miss him a lot particularly for the heads up on advanced airframes and propulsion

                                there was a thread on here a bit ago about him and some of the other missing people from MP net

                                Taranis seems to have gone very black and nothing seems to have leaked out recently - although I did see some photos a while ago of an airframe under a tarp in daylight

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