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US Mulls Moving Forces from Germany to Poland

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  • US Mulls Moving Forces from Germany to Poland

    The US Defense Department is exploring the option of withdrawal or transfer of US forces from Germany to Poland. The Washington Post (WP) reported that the costs and implications are being analyzed.

    On July 5, the White House said it had no such plans but there is no smoke without fire, otherwise why should Poland make an offer to pay $2 billion for an American base on its soil and do it now? The US Air Force began flying unarmed MQ-9 Reaper drones from Miroslawiec Air Base, Poland, in May.


    "My statement on NATO being obsolete and disproportionately too expensive (and unfair) for the U.S. are now, finally, receiving plaudits," Trump tweeted during his 2016 presidential campaign. He frequently expressed his frustration over the allies’ failure to abide by the unanimously agreed 2%-of-GDP defense-spending level.

    The WP report says President Donald Trump reportedly mulled the idea of full or partial withdrawal from Germany in early 2017.
    The president has recently sounded very critical of the German chancellor. He is frustrated with her position on a range of issues, including contribution into the NATO collective defense.
    Higher military spending is unpopular with German voters.

    The recent meeting of National Security Adviser John Bolton with German Defense Minister Ursula von der Leyen was quite disappointing for the United States as it was made clear that no substantial increase of German defense expenditure is in sight.


    more: https://www.strategic-culture.org/ne...r-process.html

  • #2
    I don't understand the german hysteria about it.
    To quote Helmut Schmidt: "If you want to get out, get out"

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    • #3
      I understand how moving US NATO forces from Germany to Poland will continue to keep Russia out and America in.... but how will that keep the Germans down?

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      • #4
        Great news.

        Yankees raus.

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        • #5
          This was a brainfart to begin with. Nowadays America's military presence in Germany is entirely geared towards power projection and theater sustainment in Northern Africa and the Middle East. It's proven vital during the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, with the bulk of all supplies and troops passing through massive hubs like Ramstein Air Base, and most military casualties undergoing treatment in Germany. The fact that the German tax payer pays a large chunk of the bill as a relic of the occupation period is just the icing on the cake.

          Leaving all those facilities behind would've costed the American tax payer a fortune; besides, if you mean to maintain any military presence in continental Europe at all, geography won't leave you with many reasonable options. If, for example, a Baltic Sea port could supplant a North Sea port Poland's Gdansk would be a bigger port than Germany's Hamburg. But it isn't.

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          • #6
            german journalist says berlin is destroying nato, not trump:

            https://www.welt.de/debatte/kommenta...ald-Trump.html

            same journalist once said that europe is only sharping its baby teeth when it comes to the us:

            https://www.welt.de/debatte/kommenta...lchzaehne.html

            pretty wicked character

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            • #7
              Not happy with this bluster from the US President. I'm hoping it is just a bargaining tool being used to persuade Euros to spend more, um, Euros...

              I feel that the presence of US troops in Europe, especially Germany, is a good way to keep friendly ITLR.

              Besides, I'm also in agreement with Muck that European presence is vital to US power projection into the further reaches the world. Absolutely vital.

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              • #8
                looks like tusk,.. poland to be more precise, is pretty jittery nowadays and absolutely not amused, especially with the austrian chancellor and the mega flirt with putin.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Euroamerican View Post
                  Not happy with this bluster from the US President. I'm hoping it is just a bargaining tool being used to persuade Euros to spend more, um, Euros...
                  Threatening someone without fear is meaningless. Trump pulling US forces out of Germany will mean that Germany doesn't have to pay for the bases which the German public will love because defence will then cost them even less, and they don't see any threat anyway or if they see it they hope it will pass them by by trying to be nice to everyone. They'll see the forces of a country seen in Germany as a global agressor being removed from Germany as decreasing the chances of being involved in a conflict and therefore as a major win.

                  "Never Again"

                  Originally posted by Euroamerican View Post
                  I feel that the presence of US troops in Europe, especially Germany, is a good way to keep friendly ITLR.

                  Besides, I'm also in agreement with Muck that European presence is vital to US power projection into the further reaches the world. Absolutely vital.
                  The same way that Trump likes to go on about countries leeching off of the US for defense. The only reason the US has had so much influence in those countries during much of the last century is because of those investments. Isolationism is being sold as the solution to the US economic problems when interventionism and power projection has been the real driving force behind US global power and wealth for the last 100 years.

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                  • #10
                    ^^--- Fair points. I, unlike most Americans, don't know that the bases are being payed for by Germany. They are ignorant.

                    So it sounds pretty certain from what you are emphasizing that German political mood has determined that the country will not be increasing its NATO spending, regardless of which party(ties) retain power.

                    I do not the zero-sum games that Trump plays. He's not diplomatic enough for me and I don't know what he thinks he is getting by playing this game. What constitutes a win?

                    In addition, I don't think that moving US infrastructure further east plays well in the east/west balance. Again and again, poking the Bear or making it worry about its western "buffer countries" is going against Gorbachev's advice against expanding NATO further east.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Euroamerican View Post
                      ^^--- Fair points. I, unlike most Americans, don't know that the bases are being payed for by Germany. They are ignorant.

                      So it sounds pretty certain from what you are emphasizing that German political mood has determined that the country will not be increasing its NATO spending, regardless of which party(ties) retain power.
                      Quoting myself from the German Armed Forces thread:

                      Originally posted by Mike1976 View Post
                      Germany set to raise defence budget from 1,24 to 1,31 percent effectively meaning about 4 billion euros. The way this is announced just prior to a NATO meeting where Trump will no doubt criticise a lot of countries again this seems like a cheap trick to be able to say that they are working on it.
                      I doubt a 4 billion increase will mean much. Inflation and ever increasing expenses for pensions, medical care and other social expenses might well end up actually lowering the amount spent on defence matters.

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                      • #12
                        Thanks for reminding me about that thread. I will have a look.

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                        • #13
                          I don't think Poland can provide the same infrastructure as the one in Germany. It would just end up costing more the US taxpayer. Maybe in the long term, but for now...

                          Your own foot, gun, shoot your own foot... profit?


                          If relations keep getting sour... I'm actually more afraid of Germany asking US to leave than the other way around. :|

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Euroamerican View Post
                            Not happy with this bluster from the US President. I'm hoping it is just a bargaining tool being used to persuade Euros to spend more, um, Euros...

                            I feel that the presence of US troops in Europe, especially Germany, is a good way to keep friendly ITLR.

                            Besides, I'm also in agreement with Muck that European presence is vital to US power projection into the further reaches the world. Absolutely vital.
                            I agree......but is it possible that the world would be better place if the ability of the US to "power project" into the further reaches of the world would be curbed just a little? After all, said "power projection" is to no ones benefit but their own.....

                            Originally posted by Mike1976
                            The same way that Trump likes to go on about countries leeching off of the US for defense. The only reason the US has had so much influence in those countries during much of the last century is because of those investments. Isolationism is being sold as the solution to the US economic problems when interventionism and power projection has been the real driving force behind US global power and wealth for the last 100 years
                            I also agree. However, how does US influence and military supremacy on EU soil benefit the Europeans? I can think of just one (lower defence costs), but even that is under question at the moment....


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                            • #15
                              i have to laugh at Trump and his Germany is a captive of Russia is that why the USA has tens of thousands of troops in Germany ...and Russia has no troops in Germany .... jesus wept Trump is a roaster

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