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  • Originally posted by coyotl View Post
    You set that dumb figure.
    Historians actually, but eh... what do I know.

    And around half of the 100mil+ were due to famines.


    Comment


    • Originally posted by Lord Helmet View Post
      The Hugo Chavez style
      "socialism"
      essentially gave the government free hand to expropriate businesses and private property at will. One time Hugo Chavez even went on his weekly TV show from Caracas and started pointing at buildings in the vicinity giving orders to expropriate this one and that one, essentially seizing private property at will. This greatly contributed to the destruction of many industries across the country. The maduro government is just a continuation of that nonsense. At this point people essentially show up to government events in return of a bag of food.

      Failed system in failed country. Pressure needs to continue until the military turns against Maduro and the government changes. Plain and simple.

      To AK16, yes I'd much rather see intervention than watch my people slowly starve.
      I had to correct your post a bit
      The brackets i have added are important
      It is not so much socialism than a kleptocracy
      And it has more to do with the fact that it is the army that controls the economy than just a few personalities with the hands in the cookie jar
      In fact the Venezuelian situation is very similar to the Indonesian or Turkish situation (and none of those two last countries are socialist) or Algeria (this last one being more or less socialist)
      The military is so deeply in control of the various economical areas that you can call it "socialism" anymore but rather a militarocracy
      That's the issue with countries where those who have guns have also the economical levers

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      • All communist states have held authority with the direct threat of physical violence. No surprise the Armed forces hold so much power.

        I don't need to post the relevant chairman Mao quote.

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        • I think that it is incorrect to judge socialism through a perfect application of its rules. This allows one to dismiss the numerous attempts to build a socialist/communist society. at the same time, capitalists could claim the same thing saying that it has never really been tried in a pure way.


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          • Originally posted by Kilgor View Post
            All communist states have held authority with the direct threat of physical violence. No surprise the Armed forces hold so much power.

            I don't need to post the relevant chairman Mao quote.
            If it was limited to use of force, i'd agree with you
            Thing is that army is controlling economy which is a entirely different thing
            And as i explained about, this is not a "socialist" only thing
            In fact it is pretty much a south american thing (but you can find it that way in other countries like Indonesia, Algeria, and yes, China ....)

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            • Or Spain under Franco.
              Or the Myanmar military junta.


              But in the end, the balance still tends to go a certain way.

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              • Originally posted by Ivan le Fou View Post

                Historians actually, but eh... what do I know.

                And around half of the 100mil+ were due to famines.

                Even those famine stories turn out to be far more complex than the Western version ('Holodomor' and The Great Famine in China)

                And then you have 'the massacre on Tianamen Square' where it curiously turns out that 0 people died. BBC later retracted their story (nobody knows that of course).

                'Capitalist' wars have killed millions too, Vietnam etc. Who knows today that the right wing coup in Indonesia 1965 (very much West engineered) killed ca. 1 million people, most of it in outright slaughter?

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                • About Venezuela it seems the coup there has flopped, that is the situation right now. War coming up?

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                  • Originally posted by coyotl View Post
                    About Venezuela it seems the coup there has flopped, that is the situation right now. War coming up?
                    I'm not sure. I haven't heard any news of major protests since about two weeks ago.

                    Every day there are new news stories with some journalist saying that Maduro's time is almost up, but I don't see how unless someone gets around to forcing him to leave.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Lord Helmet View Post
                      Locals are so fed up with the current situation that a lot of people welcome armed intervention. Life is pretty rough down there.

                      Source: My family in country and social media channels where locals express themselves.
                      Thanks for posting information from family.

                      Comment


                      • Exclusive: Venezuela's Maduro seeks OPEC help against U.S. sanctions - letter

                        MOSCOW/LONDON (Reuters) - Venezuela’s Nicolas Maduro has sought OPEC support against U.S. sanctions imposed on his country’s oil industry, citing their impact on oil prices and potential risks for other members of the producer group.
                        But a source familiar with the matter said the Organization of the Petroleum Exporting Countries, of which Venezuela is a founding member, had declined to make any formal statement. OPEC says it is concerned with oil policy, not politics.

                        More than 40 nations including the United States, European powers and most of Latin America have recognized Maduro’s rival, Juan Guaido, as the country’s rightful head of state, following disputed elections last year.
                        https://www.reuters.com/article/us-v...-idUSKCN1Q01HD

                        Not even OPEC wants to deal with this.

                        Low Venezuelan oil output could fall another 50% by 2020

                        Struggling Venezuela already is producing oil at a multi-decade low, but the socialist nation's crude output could fall another 50 percent by 2020, further imperiling the economic plight of its industry and citizenry, according to a new report.

                        After producing 2.4 million barrels a day as recently as 2015, Venezuela already is down to 1.34 million barrels daily and those supplies are projected to fall below 1 million barrels a day by the end of 2019, according to the Norwegian research firm Rystad Energy.
                        https://www.chron.com/business/energ...0-13606838.php

                        Washington Essentially Kills The Venezuela PDVSA Bond Market
                        Washington has put the brakes on the secondary market for PDVSA bonds.

                        The Treasury Department issued an amendment to trade rules under the Venezuelan sanctions regime on Monday, listing all of the bonds and debt instruments majority owned by Venezuela’s government or its quasi-sovereign oil firm PDVSA that are now essentially stuck in limbo. Any investor holding PDVSA or Venezuelan sovereign debt either has to sell it to a foreigner or hold on to it and hope for a better day.

                        The amendment makes it more of a legal challenge for the U.S. subsidiaries of PDVSA, including Citgo, to transfer funds out of the country.

                        Last week, Reuters reported that Venezuela had opened an account with Russia’s Gazprombank in order to facilitate payments from blocked accounts. Gazprombank denied the report.
                        U.S. firms and individuals are allowed to engage in transactions that are ordinarily considered incidental and necessary in dealing with PDVSA and its subsidiaries here. They can also provide brokerage services or sell any debt by PDVSA issued before August 25, 2017 so long as the sale is to a non-U.S. person, absent authorization from the Office of Foreign Assets Control at Treasury.
                        https://www.forbes.com/sites/kenrapo.../#b60e46476a5e

                        They are screwed.

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                        • Food market.. does not look so bad.

                          https://twitter.com/alboradanet/stat...73814561595393

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                          • Originally posted by coyotl View Post
                            Food market.. does not look so bad.

                            https://twitter.com/alboradanet/stat...73814561595393
                            Haven't seen many if any skinny people in any of the videos or photos.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by coyotl View Post
                              Food market.. does not look so bad.

                              https://twitter.com/alboradanet/stat...73814561595393
                              I'm sure the Potemkin villages looked great too...

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by TheKiwi View Post

                                I'm sure the Potemkin villages looked great too...
                                Believe it or not there actually is a bit of food left in the country.

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