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  • They didnt know what the hell they were doing there, nor who they were dealing with.

    Come to think of it, nothing has changed after all those years. I saw few days back photo of Italian soldiers that were dispatched to Misrata in hospital with spokesman of Misrata military council who has been injured during airstrike on Jufra base. The same bloke has been there hugging and kissing with Ghariyani Benghazi Defence Brigades that are linked to AQIM and allies with Ansar Sharia.

    Its like no one in Western world knows what the fuck is going on there and yet believe they can fix it by installing powerless puppets as prime ministers.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by kalerab View Post
      They didnt know what the hell they were doing there, nor who they were dealing with.

      Its like no one in Western world knows what the fuck is going on there and yet believe they can fix it by installing powerless puppets as prime ministers.
      That sounds exactly like their meddling in Syria.

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      • Not just. Although I guess Syria is greater shitstorm. Libya has simply been forgotten and I have a feeling that it was left in hands of UN beurocrats like Kobler who failed miserably at his job and are more interested in pushing their personal agenda instead of trying to help the country.

        Fun fact, this whole Prime Minister Serraj and Presidency Council and whatnot nonsense has been pushed by Kobler who is representative of UN mission in Libya, right? And by foreign backers in Western governments who thought this will solve Libyan problems (obviously it didnt). Ok, now to the fun fact - before Serraj has been pushed with help of Italian navy and militias that were bought Eastern and Western libyan parliaments were in regular talks in so-called "Libya-Libya dialogue", supported by Tunisia, Algeria and Egypt. You know, countries which actually have pretty serious stake in stability of Libya. And it was pushed aside because NO, UN solution is the better one.

        And now Kobler and his UN henchmen came with another "splendid" idea. Serraj government doesnt have any army, right? It has militia that are allied for this reason or that reason, but TBH most of theb dont care and are in for money, power or something in that regards. So UN came and said that "Presidential Guard" must be created. Yeah, thats right. Another militia. That will certainly solve the problem in country where militias, and lack of central authority especially in West, are cause of its problems.

        edit: And the thing here is, Haftar IS a piece of shit. Lets not sugar it, he is. He is in for power, he wants military rule of country like in Egypt with him as top dog. He sacked democratically elected mayors and installed military-appointed ones so all are fully loyal to him. And his forces did commit war crimes, I am certain of it. He disregarded civilian casualties from his airstrikes, there have been tortures of POWs and their executions too. Most of them super-hard line islamists who either were member of ISIS or didnt have problems with fighting arm-by-arm. I dont feel pity for them, but fact is that international law prohibits such behaviour. That said, in territories he has direct control of there is security. Support there for army is high. Assassinations dont happen anymore, because not just military officials were murdered in Benghazi over those years. Civilian activists too. Journalists too. Even innocent foreign teacher who done no one any wrong, was teaching english in American school of Benghazi and was beloved by his students, was shot by AK during his morning run. People were terrified, they were afraid to go outside after dark, kids were said to go to school and immidiatelly from there home where they were supposed to stay. It doesnt happen anymore there.

        And to be fair, there is security in Misrata. Because Misrata is controlled by locals, controlled by local council, people Misratis know. Security is high, city is rich on libyan standards. But moment they venture outside its fucking shitstorm. They went to Sirte and kicked out Saiqa special forces. Handed town over to Ansar Sharia. That defected to ISIS and price of that stupid-ass decision is hundreds of misratis dead and large portion of city in ruins. They had turf war with Zintanis in Tripoli and its international airport is not completely destroyed. Abducations and banditry still happens in Tripoli. Turf wars among militias from here to there, roadblocks. Even two prime ministers in one goddamn city.

        They went to South to kick out Saiqa from Sabha. Saiqa itself didnt succeed in bringin security there, so many welcomed 3rd Force taking charge. Turns up, 3rd did even shittier job. Under their watch Tuaregs and Toubous fought for months in Ubari where humanitarian crisis exploded with 3rd just watching and scrathing asses, doing nothing to stop that killing. Tribal elders eventually finally succeeded in stopping the fight and reconciliated the warring factions and brought peace. Not Misratis. That city is only road to border city of Ghat. That road has been cut for months. If not for Algeria providing humanitarian help, people in that city would starve to death.

        Berbers were the smart ones. They stayed inside their own cities and villages and decided to jus take care of their own and are doing good. But Misratis game of thrones failed miserably. And unless they are all taken and forced back to their own city and prohibited from venturing outside.....it will never change. And those are simply facts.
        Last edited by kalerab; 07-01-2017, 12:49 PM.

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        • Something unprecedented happened today.

          Russian aircraft carrier ported today in Tobruq and met with marshall Khalifa Haftar and his LNA general staff. Haftar also held video conference from Kuznetsov with RUS MoD Shoigu.

          While Haftar has been meeting in Jordan, Egypt and UAE, even recently in Algeria, this is unprecedented show of support and great deal of strenght now in Haftar hands



          As such, I think as of now we can safely declare that Haftar position of power is secured with this show of alliance and question is if what degree of great strenght he will have years from now, because he aint going nowhere and if he secured shipments of weapons from Russia....well, Misrati and salafi plans in that case are looking fucked by the minute.

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          • For the UN envoy in Libya there were a series of crossed vetoes that led to the choice of Kobler (and Germany).
            US envoy unthinkable... Italy already has the UN envoy for the Syrian issue to the UN and no one was clearly willing to give Italy also the one on Libya.
            Italy has vetoed France. Italy, France and Spain have put veto on UK.

            The only country with political and military power remained was Germany ... then the choice of Kobler was a German choice.

            Serraj was deliberately chosen because it weak ... a strong man would have created enormous divisions from the beginning. The most valuable of Serraj is its weakness... Mr nobody.


            Yesterday Italy has reopen embassy​ in Tripoli.

            Italian 48-hour diplomatic drive ends with embassy reopening ​
            Italy’s new ambassador to Libya presented his credentials today to Presidency Council chairman Faiez Serraj and then went on to the reopening of his country’s imposing white embassy on Tripoli’s Corniche. Giuseppe Perrone’s formal installation marked the climax of 48 hour of diplomatic activity by Italy which saw its interior minister Marco Minniti in the capital to give the PC and Government of National Accord his country’s full backing. He also met Serraj’s two PC deputies Ahmed Maetig and Abdussalam Kajman as well as foreign minister-designate Mohamed Siala. One key outcome for Rome is the agreement to draw up a memorandum designed to address the flow of migrants passing through Libya on their way by sea to Italy.
            The embassy reopening added strong symbolism to the visit since Italy is the first country to return its diplomats. As Minniti made clear during his visit, in February 2015 Italy had also been the last country to pull its embassy staff out of Tripoli in the face of collapsing security. Most missions had been closed and withdrawn to Tunis during the summer of 2014.
            Perrone today told the Libya Herald in his first formal interview that his country was interested in working with all parts of Libya, not just the western Libya. However there is the perception that Rome sees its key interests, both in terms of oil and gas supplies as well over the flow of migrants, as resting in the west of the country.
            Italian troops are still based at Misrata airport where they have been deployed to guard an Italian army field hospital treating wounded Bunyan Marsous fighters. There has been no indication of when these units might be withdrawn. All media attempts to get near the hospital have been stopped.
            Khalifa Ghwell, the head of the resuscitated National Salvation Government last week demanded that Italian troops quit Libya.
            Yesterday Minnitti stressed that Italy would ‘invest” in Libya’s security. “This does not only concern the security from terrorism and crime” he said, “We also want to contribute to strengthening the socio-economic security of the country.”
            The Italian interior minister also spoke a partnership with Libya against terrorism. “On this side of the Mediterranean” he said, “we are playing a fundamental role, when Daesh is on the defensive in Iraq and Syria, we have to build on this side of the region the conditions that will prevent a return of the terrorists and foreign fighters into our territories.”
            The migrant deal, due to be signed in Rome in the coming weeks, is likely to cover more than simply the interdiction of asylum-seekers seeking to leave the Libyan coast. Minnitti said that Italy would help Libya fight smuggling “360 degrees” and this he said, would start with strengthening Libya’s southern borders.
            https://www.libyaherald.com/2017/01/...ssy-reopening/


            Kalerab...we Italians are kind and correct people ... it can not be said that the UN envoy's an idiot and that he must go ... but you can always pay someone to do it for you.

            Kobler insulted and forced to leave Tripoli promptly
            SGSR and UNSMIL head Martin Kobler was humiliated by the Tripoli authorities today when his press conference was interrupted and told he needed permission to hold it at Tripoli’s Mitiga airport.
            Kobler was cut short at his separately organized press conference by the Tripoli administration’s Foreign Media Department head Jamal Zubia.
            https://www.libyaherald.com/2016/01/...poli-promptly/


            There are now also some protests from Tobruk that Serraj has illegally granted permission to Italy to enter in Libya and for the presence already of atleast three Italian warships full of Italian soldiers in Libyan territorial waters, according to them, but Rome and Tripoli have said the deal is still under discussion.

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            • Double post

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              • Originally posted by kalerab View Post
                Something unprecedented happened today.

                Russian aircraft carrier ported today in Tobruq and met with marshall Khalifa Haftar and his LNA general staff. Haftar also held video conference from Kuznetsov with RUS MoD Shoigu.

                While Haftar has been meeting in Jordan, Egypt and UAE, even recently in Algeria, this is unprecedented show of support and great deal of strenght now in Haftar hands



                As such, I think as of now we can safely declare that Haftar position of power is secured with this show of alliance and question is if what degree of great strenght he will have years from now, because he aint going nowhere and if he secured shipments of weapons from Russia....well, Misrati and salafi plans in that case are looking fucked by the minute.
                So after getting rid of Col. Gaddafi you ended up with... Col. Gaddafi.

                Well a broken, bombed, divided country wrecked by civil war later of course.

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                • According to Italian sources they have not talked only​ about weapons and money supplies.

                  Visiting Haftar aboard KUZNETSOV could give substance to rumors that the Government of Tobruk, whose Haftar represents the strong man, would be willing to grant the Russian Navy the use of bases on their territory and seals now definitely the Alliance between the same Haftar and Moscow, eager to regain lost influence in Libya as soon as possible with the removal of the Gaddafi regime.
                  ​In Italian one would say that Haftar dug his grave with his own hands.

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                  • Another day, another coup attempt.

                    BREAKING: Armed groups have taken over the ministries of defence, justice and economics in #Tripoli #Libya.
                    https://mobile.twitter.com/News_Exec...6078842880?p=v

                    UPDATE: Clashes between government forces and Armed groups who took control of the ministries of defense, justice and the economy in Tripoli pic.twitter.com/e06kWg7F1y
                    https://mobile.twitter.com/News_Exec...3942172672?p=v

                    UPDATE: The armed groups that took over the Defence, Justice and Economy ministries in Tripoli are loyal to NSG PM al-Ghweil.
                    https://mobile.twitter.com/News_Exec...5617719297?p=v

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                    • Originally posted by syncro View Post
                      ​In Italian one would say that Haftar dug his grave with his own hands.
                      That was quick!

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                      • Originally posted by flamming_python View Post



                        That was quick!

                        But I don't think the two are related?

                        Haftar is Tobruk-based, this (according to my very minimal knowledge) is Islamist infighting happening in Tripoli hundreds of miles away and not the first time either. GNC vs. GNA. (Kalerab will prolly kill my analysis).

                        F*ck how are we ever going to get a migration deal with these guys if every single town decides they are the real government.

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                        • I think he's pointing out that the line of Gaddafi lite digging his own grave is pretty silly when you consider his opponents can't go a few months without infighting and coup attempts while Daffy 2.0 maintains a tight ship, has recaptured oil fields and other key resources, and has deepened ties with powerful nations.

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                          • Originally posted by HisRoyalHighness View Post
                            I think he's pointing out that the line of Gaddafi lite digging his own grave is pretty silly when you consider his opponents can't go a few months without infighting and coup attempts while Daffy 2.0 maintains a tight ship, has recaptured oil fields and other key resources, and has deepened ties with powerful nations.
                            Uh no my knowledge on this whole thing is really not that sophisticated to be honest; really did seem to me that now this Haftar guy's powerbase is being threatened.

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                            • Originally posted by syncro View Post
                              According to Italian sources they have not talked only​ about weapons and money supplies.
                              More rumors? More fake news?

                              Originally posted by syncro View Post
                              In Italian one would say that Haftar dug his grave with his own hands.
                              Why? That sounds like Italian wishful thinking.

                              Originally posted by flamming_python View Post
                              Uh no my knowledge on this whole thing is really not that sophisticated to be honest; really did seem to me that now this Haftar guy's powerbase is being threatened.
                              The opposite is the case considering that his opponents are the ones who show weakness.

                              Comment


                              • Goddamn it Python, your ignorance was not a reason to make me look bad.

                                But in all seriousness, Haftar is like Assad but a far, far more competent ruler and has all the trump cards.

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