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  • Some good wagons there. Hopefully the one with the best fit for the RAR's wins out. I wonder if commonality will have much weight in the IFV program with the Lynx sharing the same turret and ancilleries as the Boxer. It would also mean the armor would be domestically produced. Or maybe Canberra may want to spread the love to the states that were backing BAE and missed out on the CRV.

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    • I'd say it's a good bet that common systems across the vehicles will play a big part, but how much is anyone's guess at this point. Probably the most ideal/important component in common will be the turret as well as the BMS (engine/other mechanical components would rate high as well), whether or not BAE would be happy to allow a competitor turret/systems on to their CV90 offering is another matter entirely, and at that point you'd have to ask what's the point?

      My bets at this stage would be on Puma or CV90 getting the nod. The gold plated option being the Puma (with the Lance turret as opposed to the remote control turret currently in service). The Czech Army program for replacing their BMP-2's should give us a good look at the playing field considering much of the available selection is/was on display at their trials.

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      • Isn't Rheinmetall pushing Lynx over the Puma. It seems to be their latest toy and the KF 41 is set up for 3+8. It would mean they can concentrate on Puma production in Germany and have a separate factory to pump out the Lynx

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        • They are, at least as a more economical choice for a modern AFV, but whether or not the government/Defence are willing to take the plunge on a completely untested/unproven vehicle as the backbone of the Army's mechanised fleet, that is another question. However, with the lineage of the Lynx essentially being the Marder, perhaps Lynx will be looked at as just an evolution of a legacy design with modern components and increased armour protection levels.

          The Puma is certainly the most expensive vehicle in that lot and meets much of the released requirements for Land 400, though like the Boxer announcement, a choice of Puma could well mean less vehicles in the fleet due to increased cost. However, Lynx would certainly tick a number of boxes for Army, given the design for 6-8 dismounts, armour protection on par with Puma, same turret etc as Boxer and a much cheaper design etc. However, as the make up of infantry units is under discussion now, seeing as the IFV's will now be moving from the ACR back into the battalions with infantry personnel taking the place of Cav vehicle crewman, the make up of the infantry squad/dismounts may well be cut by a quarter making the number of dismounts not as important.

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          • Originally posted by digrar View Post
            Someone like Divingengineer will have a better idea about that. I'm picking they've pretty much given the APC game away over the last 15 years, and they're all about recon now.
            ​Yes. The god awful mech role. The new IFV is massive! it dwarfs an ASLAV... hopefully (thinking Army timelines) we get them (like actually get them, not just in 'Testing') in under 10years. Because they seem to be an awesome machine.
            ​The APC's are a stopgap, albeit a very poor one. not at all the way to develop a mech capability to seamlessly transition to the IFV's..... Half the buckets are legacy, half digital, so comms always deteriorate to blue means (facebook). The only thing they seem to do is get the older diggers excited to see them rolling around being super not sneaky.

            gafkiwi Nah mate they will be getting their own vehicles so as long as they don't have to walk and can still cook up silly amounts of spam and noodles they don't care.

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            • Originally posted by Divingengineer View Post
              gafkiwi Nah mate they will be getting their own vehicles so as long as they don't have to walk and can still cook up silly amounts of spam and noodles they don't care.
              The phase 3 is for a turreted IFV and not an MG/wpn station like the UK MIV program isn't it? Either way that's a lot of space for spam, noodles and stick mags.

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              • Instructions to Industry

                • The Commonwealth’s preference: • Tracked and turreted
                • Eight man lift
                • High levels of protection and lethality
                • Mobility commensurate with the Australian Army’s M1A1 Main Battle Tank

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                • Originally posted by gafkiwi View Post
                  Isn't Rheinmetall pushing Lynx over the Puma. It seems to be their latest toy and the KF 41 is set up for 3+8. It would mean they can concentrate on Puma production in Germany and have a separate factory to pump out the Lynx
                  Technically the Lynx is a product of Rheinmetall while the Puma is a product of Krauss-Maffai-Wegmann (KMW). They both are in a joint venture to build the Puma for Germany.

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                  • Originally posted by digrar View Post
                    Instructions to Industry

                    • The Commonwealth’s preference: • Tracked and turreted
                    • Eight man lift
                    • High levels of protection and lethality
                    • Mobility commensurate with the Australian Army’s M1A1 Main Battle Tank
                    "Gavin it is then"

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                    • Originally posted by gafkiwi View Post
                      "Gavin it is then"
                      Gavin Mk.2 Mod1A....

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                      • Are these Boxers supposed to scout ahead of the M1s and whatever IFV you guys end up with or will you also get some tracked recce vehicles (Ajax, CV90 OPV etc.) as a part of the IFV purchase?

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                        • Originally posted by gafkiwi View Post
                          "Gavin it is then"
                          We'd shorten it and call it Gav...

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                          • Originally posted by Laser Shark View Post
                            Are these Boxers supposed to scout ahead of the M1s and whatever IFV you guys end up with or will you also get some tracked recce vehicles (Ajax, CV90 OPV etc.) as a part of the IFV purchase?
                            That is the general idea of the employment of the CRV (find and fix the enemy, attack with 30mm and ATGM while the heavy forces - tank/IFV assault enemy positions). However, the fact is it will probably be used as a substitute wheeled IFV, like the ASLAV was, and be the go to deployable armoured vehicle of the Australian Army, just like the ASLAV was. With capacity for six dismounts and reduction of dismounted personnel in the section (from 8 to 6 - with another 3 personnel forming the vehicle crew), the CRV could and probably will be used as an IFV - we are just not really getting enough to support a substantial lift capability. The ACR will comprise 2 CRV squadrons of 12 Boxers each and 1 tank squadron of 14 M1A1s. So those 24 Boxers could lift about an infantry company's worth of dismounts as long as all the recon and surveillance gear was removed.

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                            • Originally posted by Ballistic View Post

                              That is the general idea of the employment of the CRV (find and fix the enemy, attack with 30mm and ATGM while the heavy forces - tank/IFV assault enemy positions). However, the fact is it will probably be used as a substitute wheeled IFV, like the ASLAV was, and be the go to deployable armoured vehicle of the Australian Army, just like the ASLAV was. With capacity for six dismounts and reduction of dismounted personnel in the section (from 8 to 6 - with another 3 personnel forming the vehicle crew), the CRV could and probably will be used as an IFV - we are just not really getting enough to support a substantial lift capability. The ACR will comprise 2 CRV squadrons of 12 Boxers each and 1 tank squadron of 14 M1A1s. So those 24 Boxers could lift about an infantry company's worth of dismounts as long as all the recon and surveillance gear was removed.
                              Thanks for the reply. I must admit that I’m pretty skeptical when it comes to mixing wheeled and tracked AFVs in the same units (you kind of miss out on the biggest pros of either solution by doing that IMO), but with that being said, the Boxer looks like a great piece of kit, and from what you write here, it will probably serve Australia’s needs well.

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                              • Originally posted by Ballistic View Post
                                and be the go to deployable armoured vehicle of the Australian Army, just like the ASLAV was. W
                                You don't think that was because it was the only viable alternative? When the new IFV comes in, the Battalions won't need to rely on 2/14 and 2 Cav like it did in the last 15 years.

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