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Women serving in combat in Western Armies

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    WASHINGTON — Defense Secretary Jim Mattis is offering a dim view of females serving in infantry jobs, telling Virginia Military Institute students that the jury is out on whether women can succeed in combat. Mattis says there are too few women in the infantry ranks to provide enough data on how it’s going.

    He says he has asked top Army and Marine leaders for information to determine if having women in the infantry is a strength or weakness.

    Responding to a question from a male student, who described some of his female classmates as fierce, Mattis said the issue must be resolved by military officers who are objective and understand that the natural inclination is to have service open to all. But, he added, "we cannot do something that militarily doesn't make sense."


    Here is the Virginia Military Institute male cadet’s question on women in combat infantry units and Defense Secretary Jim Mattis' full response that he provided during a Sept. 25 speech there: “Sir ... first off I’d just like to say, pardon my language, but there are a lot of bad-ass women here , some physically fit than I am, some smarter than I am, but I remember I was doing some research on the Marine Corps’ experiment if female in combat arms makes us more combat effective, and I would just like to hear your thoughts on that.”

    Mattis response:

    “It’s a very, very tough issue. Because it goes from some people’s perspective of what kind of society do we want. You know, in the event of trouble ... you’re sleeping at night, in your family home, you’re the dad, mom, whatever, and you hear glass break downstairs. Who grabs the baseball bat and gets between the kids’ door and whoever broke in? And who reached for the phone to call 9-11. In other words, it goes to the almost primitive needs of a society to look out for its most vulnerable.

    H'17-Yep, well said Sec Def!
    Again, no discussion of higher injury rates for women in these physically demanding specialties, nor the larger issue, pregnancy and unit readiness. An issue to address for any unit, in which case, another soldier will have to fill the shortage...
    Last edited by haze17; 26-09-2018, 03:37 PM.



      This January will make three years since the Army opened infantry, armor, fire support and special operator jobs to women for the first time. At last count, there were 783 women serving across five divisions and one independent brigade, the Army’s deputy chief of staff for personnel told Army Times in a Sept. 25 interview.

      H'17- of course, what is not covered how many are injured in training or drop from a course and have to reclassify. (nor that their injury rates are higher than males) Pregnancy and unit readiness is NOT mentioned, as usual. So what does a unit do when a female infantrymen becomes pregnant? Crickets...carry on the fantasy!


      • So what does a unit do when a male infantryman becomes long term injured?


        • Runs short during a training phase, or if they're about to deploy, posts someone in. Most Companies have someone out in our neck of the woods, generally it's knees, shoulders or ankles, more often than not it's from playing footy.


          • So pretty much what they'd do if a woman is out of action for a while?


            • Originally posted by downsizer View Post
              So pretty much what they'd do if a woman is out of action for a while?
              Yes, however, for a pregnancy it is much longer, throw in Maternity Leave, and then the woman would have to be cleared to return to duty. So length of time out of the squad/platoon, 12-15 months. Hell of a long time to be out of 'action'.


              • Originally posted by downsizer View Post
                So what does a unit do when a male infantryman becomes long term injured?
                For the US military, this depends on the medical condition of the soldier. Whether they are placed on a Profile (which would dictate what they can do and limits activities negative to their recovery or Pre-Surgery) that is for light injuries. Heavier injuries require being reassigned until surgery/recovery of injury. Such duties would be administrative-type, within Headquarters at Company or Battalion-level and/or could be conducted at another agency on Post. (Garrison/JAG/Public Affairs, etc.) And this reassignment could be anywhere from 3 months to 1 year or more. Again, the soldier has to be cleared by a doctor Post-Surgery/Rehab in order to be fit to serve.


                It’s been two years since the Army first started accepting women into its infantry, armor, fire support specialist and special operations communities, and, so far, hundreds have volunteered to be among the first.

                In late September, Defense Secretary Jim Mattis told a group of Virginia Military Institute students that he wasn’t ready to give the effort a passing grade. The Army is also withholding an opinion.

                “It’s early in the process. It’s probably too early to call the ball, but we feel positive about what we’ve seen so far,” Lt. Gen. Thomas Seamands told reporters Wednesday at the AUSA annual meeting in Washington.

                H-'17- My contention, that not enough women are interested in doing this in the first place to warrant lifting the restriction, which is shown in the data collected thus far. Next, the USMC already conducted a gender-integrated test in 2012-2013 and came to the conclusion, that is was not beneficial to open up front-line specialties to women. For many reasons listed in their report and which I have stated from my own experience as a soldier.

                If you did not know any better, from the article, you would think women were not serving in the military at all. Yes, this article focuses on the front-line specialties and how women entering into them are fairing. However, the DoD does not have to gather much research, women have already been serving in Combat Support and Combat Service Support (as known in the U.S. Army) for 40 years now. One only has to compile that data to get a rough idea of what is going on now and what will happen near term. Now the difference is the front-line (Combat Arms) will see higher attrition rates, due to the physically demanding nature of these specialties. Daily PT (lots of running & calisthenics) time in the field, time on the range (in all types of weather) etc. and that is 5-6 days a week in garrison! Field exercise's are anywhere from 2 weeks to one month, pushing 20-24 hour days, all this catches up with one's body, let me tell you! Now a 5'4, 120 lbs. woman is only going to do any of this for so long...

                But, since the nation is now into Post-Modernism, facts of human biology are ignored and the realties of combat are brushed aside, in order to push a fantasy.
                Last edited by haze17; 12-10-2018, 07:39 AM.


                • 10 chars .............. 10 cahrs
                  Last edited by javahtmlcss; 12-10-2018, 08:03 AM.