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  • Weatherby uses Howa to make their guns. Considering he used to have their earlier ones made in Krautland is a vote that Japs must make better value.

    I have a Browning made in Japan. Its an inch shooter with top ammo.

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    • Originally posted by TheKiwi View Post
      Anyone owned or used a Howa rifle? Got a mate thinking of getting one in 6.5mm Swedish and wanted to know if their product is good.
      The guys at Shooting Stuff Australia speak very highly of Howa as a budget weapon. I have not had one, and have not heard anything bad about them.

      The question i would ask is why 6.5x55? 308 would be a better choice ammo wise (i.e. price and variety) IMO. 6.5 can be quite limited.

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      • He wants the 6.5 for the lower recoil. He's very light weight himself (weighs about 30kg less than me). For the kind of ranges we'd be working at 6.5 should do everything .308 can do.

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        • Originally posted by TheKiwi View Post
          He wants the 6.5 for the lower recoil. He's very light weight himself (weighs about 30kg less than me). For the kind of ranges we'd be working at 6.5 should do everything .308 can do.
          From memory the 6.5 recoil isn't that different to 303 (i have two 303s but dont have a 308). We have a 6.5 in the gun box, it hasn't seen daylight for probably 20 years.

          Having said that, the 6.5 is a great round.

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          • Everyones getting these light compact moderators these days

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            • Originally posted by TheKiwi View Post
              Anyone owned or used a Howa rifle? Got a mate thinking of getting one in 6.5mm Swedish and wanted to know if their product is good.
              Howa is a solid platform, mate has one in .308, lightened trigger, barrel job etc. It shoots great. Shot it before it got overhauled and it was nice before that as well. Well worth the money - which is already budget oriented, but they are just damn nice too shoot. I can't imagine a 6.5 being too much different from .308 in terms of recoil - should be slightly more pleasant to shoot though. Ballistics wise is a bit of a different story however out past 600m IIRC.

              I'll be getting a Howa in .223 with a heavier varmint barrel with a Vortex scope and bipod etc in the near future.
              Last edited by Ballistic; 12-10-2018, 04:10 AM.

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              • I'm considering the choice for my first 9mm pistol but not sure what to buy.
                After having tried these models:
                H&K USP (in 9mm and 45 auto), Walther PPQ, CZ 85, several 1911s (one in 9mm several sports pistols in 45 auto), Sig P220, Glock 17
                I've recently had the chance to shoot a CZ Shadow 2 and it was a dream of a pistol.
                It felt by far the best in my hands and the trigger is superb and it's just the most fun to shoot overall.
                I would buy that thing in a heartbeat if not for those reasons:

                - A CZ Shadow 1 costs 400€ less, so that would be a nice saving - but I can't get my hands on one to test if I'd like it nearly as much as the Shadow 2.
                Has anybody here shot both and can advise if the triggers are comparably good etc.?
                - I have noob problems with 9mm pistols - I oftentimes have a shot anticipation flinch and shoot to the low-left. I don't have those problems with revolvers or the Shadow 2. But I somewhat worry if I buy a race gun like the Shadow 2 with it's light trigger that I'll never learn to shoot properly with it since it compensates for my lack of skill.
                Any opinions on that?
                - Because of German law I'd be limited to only two pistols for a good while and I want my second one to be a revolver - so I can't just buy a Shadow 2 AND a Glock for example.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Xaito View Post
                  - Because of German law I'd be limited to only two pistols for a good while and I want my second one to be a revolver - so I can't just buy a Shadow 2 AND a Glock for example.
                  Actually, you could. If there is a discipline for the Glock that you can not shoot with a race gun, you can have two 9mm handguns. If you also shoot competitions where a revolver is required, you can have more than 2 handguns in Germany. In some clubs, you can have 13 handguns without much issue, because of the restrictions of some classes (IPSC, Bianchi and so on).

                  CZ 75 are still used in IPSC alot. The Shadow 1 is a great gun and I would not go for the 2nd gen. It is heavier and costs more. The flinching can be cured by someone loading a magazine for you with a random dummy cartridge. You will see if you flinch on the dud and can focus on trigger pull. Another advantage is to have a random malfunction you can train to clear.

                  I've seen many shooters being all tacticool on the range until a malfunction occurs. Then they become a danger to others and themselves trying to clear the gun.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by .338LapuaMagnum View Post

                    Actually, you could. If there is a discipline for the Glock that you can not shoot with a race gun, you can have two 9mm handguns. If you also shoot competitions where a revolver is required, you can have more than 2 handguns in Germany. In some clubs, you can have 13 handguns without much issue, because of the restrictions of some classes (IPSC, Bianchi and so on).

                    CZ 75 are still used in IPSC alot. The Shadow 1 is a great gun and I would not go for the 2nd gen. It is heavier and costs more. The flinching can be cured by someone loading a magazine for you with a random dummy cartridge. You will see if you flinch on the dud and can focus on trigger pull. Another advantage is to have a random malfunction you can train to clear.

                    I've seen many shooters being all tacticool on the range until a malfunction occurs. Then they become a danger to others and themselves trying to clear the gun.
                    Yeah, I know I can have more if I compete, hence I said only two pistols for a good while, because I don't plan to go compete with pistols until I've properly learned to shoot them.
                    The weight of the Shadow 2 is actually pretty nice - overall shooting the thing feels a lot like shooting 38 special out of a beefy 357 revolver which is what I am mostly doing when I shoot pistols.
                    Would loading dummies really help cure my flinch or would it just show that I have it - which I already know because when I slowly pull the trigger and stop right before the shot breaks I sometimes automatically dip the muzzle. Though I guess it might help, I stopped flinching with revolvers and I usually did pull the trigger 6 times even when loading just 5 chambers. Not sure that was what did it though or if I just got comfortable and relaxed with shooting a revolver and didn't have a adrenaline rush like the first couple of times shooting one.

                    Comment


                    • It is the training and familiarisation that cures flinch. But it helps a great deal to know the trigger characteristics and notice the flinch. Dry fire training is one of the most neglected ways to become a good shooter. Reloading drills, drawing and reholstering, trigger practise and so on. It is cheap, safe and does not require range time. Won't substitute actual shooting, but when you are trainined to handle a weapon "cold", you can concentrate on stuff like recoil and muzzle blast when training "hot".

                      Another good advice is to use double ear muffs. Reduce as much noise as possible to reduce the sound level induced "flinch". I experienced that with a few shooters when switching from air guns to centerfire. The blast alone made them flinch.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Xaito View Post
                        I'm considering the choice for my first 9mm pistol but not sure what to buy.
                        After having tried these models:
                        H&K USP (in 9mm and 45 auto), Walther PPQ, CZ 85, several 1911s (one in 9mm several sports pistols in 45 auto), Sig P220, Glock 17
                        I've recently had the chance to shoot a CZ Shadow 2 and it was a dream of a pistol.
                        It felt by far the best in my hands and the trigger is superb and it's just the most fun to shoot overall.
                        I would buy that thing in a heartbeat if not for those reasons:

                        - A CZ Shadow 1 costs 400€ less, so that would be a nice saving - but I can't get my hands on one to test if I'd like it nearly as much as the Shadow 2.
                        Has anybody here shot both and can advise if the triggers are comparably good etc.?
                        - I have noob problems with 9mm pistols - I oftentimes have a shot anticipation flinch and shoot to the low-left. I don't have those problems with revolvers or the Shadow 2. But I somewhat worry if I buy a race gun like the Shadow 2 with it's light trigger that I'll never learn to shoot properly with it since it compensates for my lack of skill.
                        Any opinions on that?
                        - Because of German law I'd be limited to only two pistols for a good while and I want my second one to be a revolver - so I can't just buy a Shadow 2 AND a Glock for example.

                        If you wanted a striker fired design, my suggestion would be the HK VP7. If not an HK then a Glock, based on your preference to either grip angle. Comparatively speaking the VP7 brings all the "bells and whistles" already installed including quality sights, grip surface on the front of the slide, and the beautiful German machining quality.

                        I looked very hard at the VP7 a couple weeks ago, and felt it would be the platform I'd go to if not for all the time already put in with Glocks. The VP7 has a noticeably better (striker) trigger mechanism than the Glock.

                        For myself the other training consideration I found on a possible transition to the VP7, would be the HK style trigger guard mounted ambitious magazine release lever. It also doesn't come in a size directly comparable to the G19.

                        P.S. I like Vickers' overall summary of the HK.

                        Last edited by merkwurdig; 13-10-2018, 08:29 AM.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Xaito View Post
                          I'm considering the choice for my first 9mm pistol but not sure what to buy.
                          After having tried these models:
                          H&K USP (in 9mm and 45 auto), Walther PPQ, CZ 85, several 1911s (one in 9mm several sports pistols in 45 auto), Sig P220, Glock 17
                          I've recently had the chance to shoot a CZ Shadow 2 and it was a dream of a pistol.
                          It felt by far the best in my hands and the trigger is superb and it's just the most fun to shoot overall.
                          I would buy that thing in a heartbeat if not for those reasons:

                          - A CZ Shadow 1 costs 400€ less, so that would be a nice saving - but I can't get my hands on one to test if I'd like it nearly as much as the Shadow 2.
                          Has anybody here shot both and can advise if the triggers are comparably good etc.?
                          - I have noob problems with 9mm pistols - I oftentimes have a shot anticipation flinch and shoot to the low-left. I don't have those problems with revolvers or the Shadow 2. But I somewhat worry if I buy a race gun like the Shadow 2 with it's light trigger that I'll never learn to shoot properly with it since it compensates for my lack of skill.
                          Any opinions on that?
                          - Because of German law I'd be limited to only two pistols for a good while and I want my second one to be a revolver - so I can't just buy a Shadow 2 AND a Glock for example.
                          If you can only have one for the foreseeable future, CZ Shadow 2 or a non-standard HK USP.

                          The Shadow 2 is still on my to-do list, friend of mine has one and it's always a dream to race up and down plate trees with. Magazines are plentiful, aftermarket parts aswell.

                          Of course, if you can get a deal on a USP like a Custom Sport or Elite models, they're also excellent options. I've got the CS with Trijicon HD sights and it's been my go-to since I picked it up. Only drawback to the USP is the brick of a grip that some don't like.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Lerch View Post
                            If you can only have one for the foreseeable future, CZ Shadow 2 or a non-standard HK USP.

                            The Shadow 2 is still on my to-do list, friend of mine has one and it's always a dream to race up and down plate trees with. Magazines are plentiful, aftermarket parts aswell.

                            Of course, if you can get a deal on a USP like a Custom Sport or Elite models, they're also excellent options. I've got the CS with Trijicon HD sights and it's been my go-to since I picked it up. Only drawback to the USP is the brick of a grip that some don't like.
                            USP is a nice pistol to be sure, but as you said, the grip is hit or miss - I know people who it fits like a glove but it's too thick for my small hands.
                            Also I'm not a fan of the magazine release levers on the trigger guard in general, but the USPs miniature levers are the least ergonomic magazine releases I've tried so far.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Xaito View Post

                              USP is a nice pistol to be sure, but as you said, the grip is hit or miss - I know people who it fits like a glove but it's too thick for my small hands.
                              Also I'm not a fan of the magazine release levers on the trigger guard in general, but the USPs miniature levers are the least ergonomic magazine releases I've tried so far.
                              I totally get you on the paddle release. I swapped them out on my 9mm's (P2000 and USP) for the oversized ones that come with the HK45C. Not quite as large as what comes with the P30 and VP9 but still easier to contact than stock.

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