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Is This the Future of Military Small Arms?

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  • Is This the Future of Military Small Arms?

    Textron's LSAT system reduces ammunition weight, making the soldier's load easier to carry.
    A new kind of ammunition could reduce by up to 40 percent the weight that the average soldier or marine carries in combat, which can easily exceed 100 pounds in combat. This "cased telescoped" ammo replaces brass bullet casings with polymer ones to achieve considerable weight savings, making U.S. troops deadlier in the process.

    For nearly two hundred years, rifles and pistols have essentially used the same technology: a bullet and gunpowder pushed into a brass shell casing. The technique is simple, cheap, and reliable, which is why it has lasted so long. The downside: while an individual cartridge is relatively light, the weight of brass adds up. Brass casing technology has remained essentially the same since at least World War I, patently refusing to adopt modern materials.

    Now that may be about to change. The cased telescope technology developed by Textron Systems, promises to bring small arms ammunition into the 21st Century.
    http://www.popularmechanics.com/mili...sed-telescope/

  • #2
    I've seen some fairly nasty looking polymer cartridge failure videos on the interwebs. Not 100% convinced yet.

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    • #3
      They have been out for a long time 15 years or so. I idea is great, more ammo is preferred to less. Weight is a grunts enemy. I forgot what the issues are. Being a reloader now, brass is the case of preference. I like steel for fun shooting, all you need is a magnet on a stick to shag the cases.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Hollis View Post
        They have been out for a long time 15 years or so. I idea is great, more ammo is preferred to less. Weight is a grunts enemy. I forgot what the issues are. Being a reloader now, brass is the case of preference. I like steel for fun shooting, all you need is a magnet on a stick to shag the cases.
        Issues back then (mostly with the G11 rifle that was the most widely trialed) was the cost of the caseless ammo and also the fact that combustion was incomplete, leaving the rifle very dirty and prone to jam or overheating

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        • #5
          Mordoror, Thanks. IN '68 They changed the powder for the M16. caused bad fouling, Killed a lot of Marines because of that.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Mordoror View Post

            Issues back then (mostly with the G11 rifle that was the most widely trialed) was the cost of the caseless ammo and also the fact that combustion was incomplete, leaving the rifle very dirty and prone to jam or overheating

            My understanding is that the issues at least as far as the G11 were concerned were actually more to do with cook offs stemming from the propellant once a cartridge loaded into a hot barrel...
            Once they changed the propellent types this was resolved, and some suggestions are that the actual design was pretty much perfected but due to the timing with the reunification of germany it simply wasn't feasible to go through with the program, especially with the huge abundance of small arms already available from both East/West German Armies + Ammunition and subsequent end of the cold war reducing necessity...


            As for the poylmers I guess we'll see, no doubt those with a little more independence for procurement will sure be looking at it because if/when they do get it right that could be a huge improvement, hell you could reduce the weight a little and up the ammunition carried a little win win..

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            • #7
              When you look at the mechanism used by the G11 you can see why they described it as a cuckoo clock rifle. While the ammo issues may have been more or less resolved, I'd hate to have to clear a jam or clean the thing.

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              • #8
                Some kind of change will roll out sooner or later propably along with calibre change. It is due to advances in propelants themself. If someone wanted to achieve best balistic characteristic using most advanced propelants he would need to use different calibre round than any curently avaible rifles.

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                • #9
                  Have no idea how the projectile is close to the lands using that idea. Yet 20% improved accuracy.

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                  • #10
                    Never been in the army or even pretended to be... But I thought the mentality was as soon as something is lighter they just make you carry more shit.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Kilgor View Post
                      Never been in the army or even pretended to be... But I thought the mentality was as soon as something is lighter they just make you carry more shit.
                      Yes. Strangely the weight of carried stuff is not very different from what carried the romans despite polymers, plastic, lightened stuff. Go figure

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Kilgor View Post
                        Never been in the army or even pretended to be... But I thought the mentality was as soon as something is lighter they just make you carry more shit.
                        True.. But hopefully that means more ammo and not some other shit. I know lots of stories about our guys in Helmand that ran out of ammo in ambushes. Believe me.. you'll rather carry some extra kilos than run out of ammo in a firefight.

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                        • #13
                          Cased telescopic ammo might be good the problem with any caseless ammunition is going to be heat. The brass draws out alot of heat from the rifle when it is ejected and much of the heat from the round going off is contained in the brass. Without it all of the heat from the combustion of the gunpowder is directly transferred in to the chamber and barrel.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Kilgor View Post
                            Never been in the army or even pretended to be... But I thought the mentality was as soon as something is lighter they just make you carry more shit.

                            Spoken for the truth.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Kilgor View Post
                              Never been in the army or even pretended to be... But I thought the mentality was as soon as something is lighter they just make you carry more shit.

                              Kind of like Aviation, New air frames, larger cabins - look at all the passenger room they will love that!! Now we'll just cattle cart them as usual but with more cattle...

                              Managers etc get used to the idea that people will put up with a certain discomfort, thus once they have established what that is then they can just continue to fill to that capacity... Again like most work places, what you worked harder or more efficiently?! Well according to our stats that just means we can expect more

                              Ideally this type of advance might allow for a compromise, some extra capacity than was allowed prior and extra mobility but theory and practice are different things

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